Spring RTS Engine

Posted: **13 Jan 2007, 21:12**

what the hell, the do not turn around for me...

come in lobby with me.. maybe we are doing something different.

Posted: **13 Jan 2007, 21:52**

KDR_11k wrote:(after a .give I have to give them a stop order before they do that, though).

I've noticed the same some time ago... after being issued a stop order spawned units would engage each other even when the enemies weren't in their firearcs.

Posted: **13 Jan 2007, 22:21**

any other bugs?

Posted: **13 Jan 2007, 23:25**

You can use practically any ground unit to kill comms as long as they can fire them, just run them underneath and micro them away from the comms weapons.

Posted: **14 Jan 2007, 00:00**

okay, maybe I came across wrong, the gouf headrod boy, maybe because if what youve just mentioned, virtually never targets. you can charge into a group of enemy boys and only 2-3 goufs will fire because of their short range and glitchy targeting; my issue is atm they dont work as intended.

also, the zauk2 with the close combat gauntlemnt has loadsa trouble targeting its gauntlet; if things get to close it glitches and dosnt attack (either weapon) and otherwise things are too far away for it to be useful. in FPS mode, I found the gauntlent really owns but it virtually never uses it even when the enemy is super close. I also failed to make to use the gautlent on a factory...

this is based on tests not that game the other day. that game the other day I got owned, all the combat was me hooning the boys around on transports for fun. which owns btw.
is there a stats page anywhere for DPS, health, range, cost etc?

Posted: **14 Jan 2007, 00:32**

okay, maybe I came across wrong, the gouf headrod boy, maybe because if what youve just mentioned, virtually never targets. you can charge into a group of enemy boys and only 2-3 goufs will fire because of their short range and glitchy targeting;my issue is atm they dont work as intended.

Glitchy targeting is beyond my control... see reply about zakuII gauntlet.

However, it still does it's job. It the test games that I have run people do employ him effectively. I am sorry, the best I can tell you is that you have to really get this mod down to use some of the more advanced units. I am not trying to brush off your statement but somethings I can and cannot control.

The way spring handles certain weapons makes things awkward but the gouf does has a decent range. Pay attention to that. you cannot throw him at the enemy and expect them to butt chests together and him paralyzed. He does have a range to that weapon which does alleviate a lot of melee issues. So try to give him some breathing room.

also, the zauk2 with the close combat gauntlemnt has loadsa trouble targeting its gauntlet... etc etc etc

that is because spring does not truely support close combat. it is the best I could give you guys. Yep, I have been aware for almost a year now about all the bugs with spring and that close combat weapon. I used the best tricks that we have available to us but close combat(melee) doesn't exist as a weapon yet. if it existed you would see a lot of it in gundam.

is there a stats page anywhere for DPS, health, range, cost etc?

Lol, nope. If there was I would have to constantly update it when I release

. DPS is unreliable though, it doesn't take into account how fast a unit aims(which is a huge factor), how long a range the weapon has, burst fire, aoe etc...

However, modweb had a 1.1 profile(it was the test release but it should be pretty close).

Are there any units that seemed weak or strong?

Posted: **14 Jan 2007, 04:36**

is there a stats page anywhere for DPS, health, range, cost etc?

Right here!

The t61
Sorry, bad math on my part, the t61 isnt as strong as i thought in DPS-for-cost. However, it can still outrange static defenses, has a 360 degree firing arc and is faster than most mechs (These three, in combination, make it perfect for hit and run).

There are times where gelgoogs/rx79beams and snipers are next to untouchable because of their range.

And the t61 outranges them all...

Do you feel (Gouf Flighttypes) may be a bit expensive?

Yes. Their erratic flight behaviour gives them poor survivability and makes them very hard to micro. Though even with a big HP buff, they would probably still stumble into the enemy all the time and get shot down. Its usually easier to just micro the gouf custom and kampfer.

The mechs in this picture will never turn around. before, in the earlier builds when the patch was first applied they would turn around and fire. Now, they stand there.

This isnt so bad, just means more benefit from flanking and micro!

Posted: **14 Jan 2007, 06:37**

Saktoth wrote: The t61
Sorry, bad math on my part, the t61 isnt as strong as i thought in DPS-for-cost. However, it can still outrange static defenses, has a 360 degree firing arc and is faster than most mechs (These three, in combination, make it perfect for hit and run).

There are times where gelgoogs/rx79beams and snipers are next to untouchable because of their range.
And the t61 outranges them all...

Sniper II:1100
rx78/alex: 900
t61range: 800
Sniper:750
gelgoog/rx79beam:750
Goufb:700
Dom: 600

Not all of them

BUT

I was thinking about these changes....

t61range: 700 down

Sniper:850 up
Goufb:800 up
Dom: 700 up

what do you think?

Posted: **14 Jan 2007, 09:02**

I think at very close range it could be the fire cone not including the center of the target because it's too high/low like we've seen with the cuddling magellas.

Posted: **14 Jan 2007, 11:36**

alternatly, leave its current range, but give it a minimal range as well.

Posted: **14 Jan 2007, 14:11**

The ranges are kinda confusing at the moment, especially given the descriptions of the units.

For example, the Xamel is called a 'Mobile Long range artillery unit' with 2500 range. The other Zeon units called 'Long Range' or 'Artillery' have less than 750 range (The Gelgoog and Gelgoog canon).

The fed guntank 'Medium Artillery mech' has 1500 range. On the other hand the fed guncannon 'Medium Artillery and Longrange mech' has 900 range, exactly the same as everything else built by the exp mech building. Their descriptions include 'Medium Artillery support mech' 'Heavy long range Assault Mech' 'Medium Ground artillery' and 'VERY Heavy Long Range unit'. Yet they all have 900 range. Whats the difference between longrange and artillery? Shouldnt 'Medium Artillery and longrange' have more range than 'Medium artillery'?

Even if the t61 is dropped down to 700 range, thats still only 200 difference between it and 'long range/artillery' units, not a great deal.

I think the ranges need to be adjusted. Why are most of the 'long range' and 'artillery' units not anywhere near the guntank or xamel, and only slightly more than some frontline assault units?

More than that i think the descriptions need to be standardized! A lot of the descriptions dont seem to mean anything consistent. This might help new players a lot more in figuring out what sort of roles the units are meant to play, and how best to use them (for my part, im still kinda confused

)

Posted: **14 Jan 2007, 14:29**

yeah, actually I think the descriptions are one of the main issues in learning the mod.. things arent what they seem.

Posted: **14 Jan 2007, 14:34**

and what exactly is the Zakutank for? it seems to be a more expensive zaku2.

Posted: **14 Jan 2007, 21:09**

Saktoth wrote:The ranges are kinda confusing at the moment, especially given the descriptions of the units.

It is better then 100mm rocketlauncher or beam rifle mech.

Saktoth wrote:For example, the Xamel is called a 'Mobile Long range artillery unit' with 2500 range. The other Zeon units called 'Long Range' or 'Artillery' have less than 750 range (The Gelgoog and Gelgoog canon).

They are long range, for something that isn't artillery or a sniper. the way I was doing it was like this:

First descriptor refers to hitpoints:
Light
Medium
Heavy
very heavy

Long range denotes relative to that unit.
Artillery or sniper puts a unit into it's own category.

I have changed the xamel to long range artillery because it is supposed to be fired when stationary.

Saktoth wrote:The fed guntank 'Medium Artillery mech' has 1500 range. On the other hand the fed guncannon 'Medium Artillery and Longrange mech' has 900 range, exactly the same as everything else built by the exp mech building. Their descriptions include 'Medium Artillery support mech' 'Heavy long range Assault Mech' 'Medium Ground artillery' and 'VERY Heavy Long Range unit'. Yet they all have 900 range. Whats the difference between longrange and artillery? Shouldnt 'Medium Artillery and longrange' have more range than 'Medium artillery'?

So to explain:

guntank 'Medium Artillery mech
Means: medium hitpoints and it is artillery

guncannon 'Medium Artillery and Longrange mech
Medium hitpoints with artillery and a longrage weapon(beamrifle)

Saktoth wrote: Even if the t61 is dropped down to 700 range, thats still only 200 difference between it and 'long range/artillery' units, not a great deal.

Considering the damage that 200 range can mean a lot. 200 range is a lot.

Saktoth wrote: I think the ranges need to be adjusted. Why are most of the 'long range' and 'artillery' units not anywhere near the guntank or xamel, and only slightly more than some frontline assault units?

It may be a bit too obfuscated. Thing is I do not state how high the range on an artillery unit is because the descriptions are pretty long as it is. I cannot put a paragraph in there.

Saying something like:

For example guncannon:
Medium hitpoints with a pretty longranged gun and a medium ranged artillery gun

is a bit long...

Saktoth wrote:More than that i think the descriptions need to be standardized! A lot of the descriptions dont seem to mean anything consistent. This might help new players a lot more in figuring out what sort of roles the units are meant to play, and how best to use them (for my part, im still kinda confused )

unit guide J5mello, Aun and I did not type this for nothing.. tell me you looked at it?

I am not really sure how to help you on that. With the incoming lua ui, I can do some neat stuff but if someone overrides my ui that I will make for gundam they will be missing information. one of the planned features (when I get luaui in the next version of spring) is an info box with MORE information in it. The unit description area is too small. What I have planned is a visual representation showing:

Code: Select all

Range
HP
Speed
Reaction time
fire Arcs
metal and energy cost a second
how many you can have

Posted: **14 Jan 2007, 22:24**

The unit guide tells us to send 3-4 K├â┬ñmpfers into a base...

Posted: **14 Jan 2007, 22:32**

Lol, ok I will fix that. Still catching up with all the changes.

anything else(I cannot double check it I am stretched thin with reallife stuff right now).

Posted: **14 Jan 2007, 22:40**

Ok, I gotta shut my machine down, spring cleaning and reorganizing. Going to be offline for the better part of a day....maybe... anyway... I will read all responses... do you guys think those range changes will help? Do you see anything else?

Outside of the range changes, these are also done.. what are your thoughts?

------------------------------------Units------------------------------------
T61 tank
Hitpoints reduced from 1000 to 700
Movespeed reduced from 4 to 3

Rx78 remodeled

Fedcom
changed category to AIR from notair
hp increased 45000 from 40000

8 new units icons.
2 for the comms
2 for the hero units
1 for the rx78
1 for any radar blips
1 for the gunperry
1 for the dodai

Fixed a few teamcolors that were odly off..

fixed ez-8s firing while moving animation.

------------------------------------General------------------------------------
Added support for gradual reclaim

Posted: **15 Jan 2007, 02:34**

So longrange artillery means artillery with a very long range. But artillery AND longrange, means it has two different guns, one artillery and one long range? Not confusing at all.

I did read the unit guide. But its hard to remember all the names of the units and their roles, since they look similiar and most names are just letters/numbers. Nevermind that there are 10 different zaku variants (A lot of them very similiar, others totally different).

Perhaps a description of role, rather than just their HP and range (Which you can see in the unit info box anyway!). Something that tells you how to use them. 'Frontline' 'Assault' 'Base Raider' 'Support Artillery' 'Assault Artillery' or such.

Posted: **15 Jan 2007, 03:08**

Their roles are not that simple. It all depends on a situation. That is why they have a paragraph or so in the unit guide.

For example, short xamel description... GIVE ME ONE.

There isn't much of one. No one unit is going to serve a specific purpose like that at all times. Even the descriptions in other rts games are BS. I am sorry man it is not that simple. Take one unit and give me a description of what it is for. It is harder then you think.

For example the kampfer is a great unit for base rape... so lets say I put base rape as his description.. people will still think that means he does great against THE WHOLE BASE. Nope sorry. So let's rehash it... "good at destroying buildings" What about units... ok... "good at destroying buildings turn him off to do massive damage to single units" That is too long.

If you can give me a five word description for anything in gundam I would be amazed. It simply isn't that simple.

I think the only ones that are simple are things like:

UnitName=Missile turret
Description="Anti-Air Missiles"
or how about this guy:
UnitName=luggun
Description="Radar plane"

I do what I can, but the space is not very forgiving in the gui. Yes, I would love to have something like this instead:

UnitName=Kampfer
Description="Fast base assault unit, skirt it around the rear of your enemy. Should you meet an enemy hit his on/off button and turn on his rocketlauncher."

I am sure that is more what you are looking for. However, the kampfer is super specialized. So lets play with the rx78.

Name=Rx-78
Description=High hitpoints anti-swarm unit.

This would have TA players crawling in their panties. The first problem is "High" hit points sounds like it would be a krogoth or something. It isn't, but it has a huge amount of hp though. He also does great damage to swarms killings zaku2s or gms like they were a joke. However, if overwhelmed he will bite it hard.

So then we revise:

Name=Rx-78
Description=High hitpoints anti-swarm unit. It can be over-run though, make good use of it's range.

Still too long.

Even something like a zaku2 would need a long description. They are HIGHLY similar the main difference being reaction time and hp. However, sometimes you need zakus and some times you need zaku2s. so lets look at the pad for example:

Construction type Zaku
Your first and most basic builder. Other than the Com he is the only mech that can build defenses.

Zaku2 with machine gun
They die in the threes so build them in the fours" The Zaku 2 is one of the weakest mechs in the game but in return for that you get a unit you can build droves of.

Zaku with machine gun
Cheapest (and weakest) thing the Zeon can build, yes, starcraft player these are zerglings... if zerglings could shoot down aircraft and blast the hell out of the enemy.

Zaku2 with rocket launcher
Similar to the Zaku2 but trades up for a rocket launcher. Makes good anti air and has decent stopping power against mechs

Recon Zaku
This unarmed Zaku variant has powerful radar, los and a decent jamming radius. One or two always help out an attack force

Gouf
This mech is designed for close assault. Its heat rod weapon can paralyze any unit, even the powerful Alex, in one shot

Zaku2 Plus
This Zaku2 adds a spiked gauntlet to its arsenal, perfect for close combat.

Zaku2 R
An experimental zaku2 with thrusters it uses to gain higher mobility. This guy can hover over land and water allowing him to attack from many angles. Combine them with DOMs to cover your Xamels

Zaku2rl Plus
This rocket Zaku2 has twin rocket launchers attached to its shins. The rockets have a very limited fire arc but deal medium damage. Line these up and send them at your enemy.

That is why I went with the obfuscated descriptions. It was the best way I could handle it in the text space I can use on the current gui. Does this explain my dilemma?

Seriously, if you have the answer, I would love to hear it. I need short descriptions.

Posted: **15 Jan 2007, 03:46**

seriously, that unit guide took a lot of work to write.... I can see the possible confusion when a mech has artillery+a weapon that is long ranged. However, the rest, no I am sorry not that hard...

lets take the federation level2 building the hanger:

Construction Guntank
RX-79-RL
Guntank
RX-79-Zook
EZ-8
RX-79PLUS
rx79 beamrifle

now lets pretend you can ignore the numbers that are the same thing:

Construction Guntank
RL
Guntank
Zook
EZ-8
PLUS
beamrifle

Now lets pretend I replace it with level2 unit something very generic.

L2 unit Construction Guntank
L2 unit RL
L2 unit Guntank
L2 unit Zook
L2 unit EZ-8
L2 unit PLUS
L2 unit beamrifle

still confusing. But do you see the trend? look at what we have

we have some guntank thing that we know is for construction
we have some guntank thing
we have some thing that has a rocket launcher
we have some thing that has a zook gun
we have some thing that is called ez8
we have some thing that is a plus unit.
we have some thing that is a beamrifle

So what about what the description adds....

we have some guntank thing that we know is for construction
we have some guntank thing, described as a Medium Artillery mech
we have some thing that has a rocket launcher, described as a Anti-air mech;
we have some thing that has a zook gun, described as a Ground artillery mech
we have some thing that is called ez8, described as a Medium Longrange mech, Limit: 1
we have some thing that is a plus unit, described as a Medium mech with Heavy assault;
we have some thing that is a beamrifle, described as a Medium Longrange mech

So lets step down a level again...
guntank thing that we know is for construction
guntank thing, described as a Medium Artillery mech
rocket launcher, described as a Anti-air mech;
zook gun, described as a Ground artillery mech
ez8, described as a Medium Longrange mech, Limit: 1
plus unit, described as a Medium mech with Heavy assault;
beamrifle, described as a Medium Longrange mech

Where is the confusion?

do you need long range to be soo exagerated that it has to fire over half the map or something?

Lets see... why would the ez-8 and beam thing be called long range? Well, lets forget about artillery because most of that shit is on tanks or that giant yellow xamel..

As far as the numbers... yeah it is soo confusing.

lets see... most mechs are using:
rockets :500
little machinegun: 459

the ones titled long range: 750

OMFG AT LEAST +250 RANGE!

that is signifigant in spring.

seriosly.. look at the attack range rings:

In the center are a zaku2,zaku2rl and an rx79beam

Do you know what makes the beam rifles have a low damage output? I can tell you? It is because I made them inaccurate. Otherwise building them was = win.

Spring RTS Engine

Gundam 1.1