Spring RTS Engine

Yep, you don't pay attention to detail - but how is that a good thing

Gota wrote:BA dev is TFC,his sidekick is Regret,end of story.
Nobody is gonna implement your ideas....make your own mod or join an existing one.

Doesn't mean I don't still want to hear these ideas..

KaiserJ wrote:1) return old comwrecks behavior
2) nerf vanguard HP
3) fix amphibious trans <3

then you're done... BA is complete

I agree on the comwreck behavior, it should never fly across the map, and fixing land transports is a todo.

Considering the DPS that aircraft and defenses can put out i'm still not convinced that vanguard needs an hp nerf, t3 should be effective and good at their jobs so maybe the vanguard is just too cheap?

Jazcash wrote:

JohannesH wrote: Also jeffy wreck is really small compared to jeffy cost, 15m and 29m. Compare to weasel for example, 16 and 24 (yes bigger than jeff wreck)... wreck being 2/3+ of m cost seems pretty standard for any units, I don't see why jeffy shouldn't be more in that line too. Having small wreck just really encourages being aggressive with them, there is quite small defenders advantages vs scouts to start with.
If the wreck was upped to ~20m, it still wouldn't noticeably affect almost anything besides the times when somebody really keeps attacking with mass jeffy, leaving dozens of wrecks, which usually makes for short and kinda disappointing games. In any case jeffy harass would still be very useful.

Jesus, when we said "Small balance changes", we weren't being that fussy...

You really like to complain don't you. Balance is built on small things, just because you don't notice it on 8v8 dsd doesn't mean it's not something that should be considered and balanced.


@TFC it's not so much that vanguard is tough, but it's just super cheap and super effective. It has almost the dps of a razorback for 5 times the range and huge splash damage and much tougher and all terrain - it doesn't really have a downside. I know they're totally different units but the point is that the vanguard is basically always the best choice because its' SO effective, use 3 vanguards and a razorback to stop spam and you're basically unstoppable.

Then again T3 is really only used in games such as 8v8 dsd so balance isn't necessarily immediately apparent(lack of people countering properly), so that could be a totally wrong impression, it's just that I don't think I've ever seen a game where a player makes 5 or more vanguards and doesn't win, unless someone on the other team responds with even more vanguards.

TheFatController wrote:Considering the DPS that aircraft and defenses can put out i'm still not convinced that vanguard needs an hp nerf, t3 should be effective and good at their jobs so maybe the vanguard is just too cheap?

Cost increase would hurt the vanguards more than hp nerf (depending on the numbers ofc but still). Basically you make vanguards to dish out the damage, not for their high hp. If you get less damage output for your money, that's usually worse than having to be more careful with them.

Hobo Joe wrote: You really like to complain don't you. Balance is built on small things, just because you don't notice it on 8v8 dsd doesn't mean it's not something that should be considered and balanced.

You really think 10 metal is going to affect anything ... ever?

Jazcash wrote:

Hobo Joe wrote: You really like to complain don't you. Balance is built on small things, just because you don't notice it on 8v8 dsd doesn't mean it's not something that should be considered and balanced.

You really think 10 metal is going to affect anything ... ever?

Every metal is sacred.

Hobo Joe wrote: Every metal is sacred.

Every metal is sacred.
Every metal is great.
If a metal is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Maybe a speed-nerf for the Vanguard? While it's technically slower than a sumo, it seems to get into firing position faster thanks to its all-terrain ability. Maybe it wouldn't seem so impossibly imba if the enemy had more time to mount a counterattack against it? It seems like Arm players haven't properly enjoyed the experience of agonizingly waiting for their units to arrive at the destination.

The damned thing also has 1.5x the armor of the Razorback. Why the hell would you *ever* build a razorback instead of one of those?

Pxtl wrote:Maybe a speed-nerf for the Vanguard? While it's technically slower than a sumo, it seems to get into firing position faster thanks to its all-terrain ability. Maybe it wouldn't seem so impossibly imba if the enemy had more time to mount a counterattack against it? It seems like Arm players haven't properly enjoyed the experience of agonizingly waiting for their units to arrive at the destination.

The damned thing also has 1.5x the armor of the Razorback. Why the hell would you *ever* build a razorback instead of one of those?

Razorback is faster and an excellent raiding unit, tons of damage, amazing anti-spam, and very cheap for T3. You don't have to worry that much about it getting dgunning like you do with heavier T3 units (not vanguards though, since they're such long range)

let the heathens spill theirs
on the delta ground
commander will make them pay
for each wreck that can't be foundddd



maybe HP nerf isn't the greatest idea; i just feel like vanguard should be more susceptible to death by spam... perhaps increase the firing cooldown time to allow small cars to drive up to them and kill them? just seems a bit strange i guess to see them so effective by themselves; id feel better about dying to them if they had to be mixed with other units.

anyways it was the least important of my suggestions

and you'll all be sold for scientific experiments.

Jazcash wrote:

Hobo Joe wrote: You really like to complain don't you. Balance is built on small things, just because you don't notice it on 8v8 dsd doesn't mean it's not something that should be considered and balanced.

You really think 10 metal is going to affect anything ... ever?

It usually won't matter much at all in most cases, which is 1 good point to change it to a more normal wreck value.

But it does matter some, when there's 30 dead jeffies lying around your base.

Jazcash wrote:Main thing that annoys me about playing naval is the slow turn circles of the units and the messy labs. I mean, units being spawned inside the lab is cool, but isn't terribly awesome for gameplay. CA spawns the units in front of the lab to avoid the problem of units taking ages to exit the lab or getting stuck.

This is a design choice. It forces you to build extra labs after you hit a certain about of BT, because the effeciency starts to add up so much that opening times/exit times become a factor in buildtime, especially when building cheaper units. Andy/Day routinely build 4+ vehicle factories on Comet Catcher due to this (also because they prefers cons over nanos, which tend to cluster and their opening times are more of a factor).

We did this teleport thing in CA because we wanted acceleration to be a balance factor. The Ravager (Raider), for example, can move even faster than the stumpy, but accelerates very slowly. This gives it a cool dynamic, but makes it incredibly ineffective with factory exit times (way below stumpy, say).

BA is more regular with its acceleration times, and thus has no need to change this aspect of balance. If you -want- to though, you can probably get away with it by ensuring that opening times are long enough to keep the delay and ineffeciency in there (nanos, especially, open very fast). If ships are especially a problem (due to awful accel), you can probably make the unit move through the factory as it is built (a conveyor belt effect) though i never had a problem with the opening times. On large scale map with large economies i can see it being more difficult than SoW, but when you have a mass scale economy another shipyard is not expensive, and with conship crowding/opening times, you want to make one anyway.

Ba is fine. I haven't even been in a situation where I've lost a game due to slight balance tweaks. If you wanna stop vanguards, make more vanguards. If you wanna stop a sea scout rush, rush your scouts first. If you wanna have a bigger AOE for flak, spread your flak guns out. If you wanna make more tanks than your enemy, ask for resources as necessary. Yes, I know that there are still some problems, like the transport, and CORE still doesn't have any special fusions, but hey, BA plays fine, and what it really boils down to is situation analysis and reaction time. So quit whining.

[RRU]RockmoddeR wrote:Ba is fine. I haven't even been in a situation where I've lost a game due to slight balance tweaks. If you wanna stop vanguards, make more vanguards. If you wanna stop a sea scout rush, rush your scouts first. If you wanna have a bigger AOE for flak, spread your flak guns out. If you wanna make more tanks than your enemy, ask for resources as necessary. Yes, I know that there are still some problems, like the transport, and CORE still doesn't have any special fusions, but hey, BA plays fine, and what it really boils down to is situation analysis and reaction time. So quit whining.

Don't be such a moron. You could say that about anything. You could give Core a free Krogoth and Arm nothing and still scream, "JUST PLAY CORE THEN".

Making these minor balance changes is to make units match up better against each other rather than having OP units that players make every single time because there isn't much that can beat them.

[RRU]RockmoddeR wrote:sea scout rush

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooob.

No but srsly use vettes.