Spring RTS Engine

You can (and you do) choose to stack them using !cbalance. The choice is there. Just because you refuse to use !balance doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

CarRepairer wrote:You can (and you do) choose to stack them using !cbalance. The choice is there. Just because you refuse to use !balance doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

It's not the players fault that the balancing system is broken.

Balance doesn't usually give you much better anyway.

Regret wrote:For the record: Springie games are currently stacked in the vast majority. And it has been a long time since elo was implemented so the system had time to adapt.

You saying it works will not make the facts go away.

Elo doesn't get magically better over time. Its about the number of games played.

Also, let me pinpoint exactly where the "stacking" issue is. What happens is that first-time players start out with a rank of 1500, or exactly average. More often then not they are not nearly this skilled. Now in theory what would happen is they would play some games, lose elo, and eventually get low enough to get put with a better team so that their win/loss ratio evens out to 50/50. In the meantime though they will have a low reliability rating so they will be balanced last.

Now in my experience what often happens in practice is that one particular clan will want to play together, so that there are 3 experienced players on one team giving that team much less of a chance of getting some random newb. The clan balance takes priority over the rating reliability so the random newbies end up on the other team, which has maybe 1 or 2 experienced players at best who end up playing the whole game outnumbered. The newbies, having been steamrolled by the opponent and possibly yelled at by their frustrated teammates, decides that CA is a terrible game.

Regret wrote:It's not the players fault that the balancing system is broken.

Hmmm, can't argue with that. I propose a fix for the broken system: remove !cbalance

As much as us non-clanners would love the death of cbalance, I tend to think that it would scare off too many clan players.

I wouldn't mind seeing one server running with cbalance disabled, if it were specifically labeled "this is the n00b server!"

I propose a fix for the broken system. Learn who people are and balance them manually.

Pxtl wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing one server running with cbalance disabled, if it were specifically labeled "this is the n00b server!"

There is such autohost(s), at least for BA.

But its much nicer to play with people, who you can trust and cooperate with, than random noobs. And its not about winning or losing, ofc its a nicer game to have a good team on the other side too.

JohannesH wrote:But its much nicer to play with people, who you can trust and cooperate with, than random noobs. And its not about winning or losing, ofc its a nicer game to have a good team on the other side too.

I agree with this, it really sucks to have to spend a whole game teaching someone or to have to spend a whole game covering another player. It sucks bad.

luckywaldo7 wrote:Hmmm, can't argue with that. I propose a fix for the broken system: remove !cbalance

Licho doesn't know how to distribute numbers as evenly as possible into 2 groups when certain numbers have to be together. That is the problem, not cbalance.

Regret wrote:

luckywaldo7 wrote:Hmmm, can't argue with that. I propose a fix for the broken system: remove !cbalance

Licho doesn't know how to distribute numbers as evenly as possible into 2 groups when certain numbers have to be together. That is the problem, not cbalance.

Patches are welcome.

JohannesH wrote:

Pxtl wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing one server running with cbalance disabled, if it were specifically labeled "this is the n00b server!"

There is such autohost(s), at least for BA.

But its much nicer to play with people, who you can trust and cooperate with, than random noobs. And its not about winning or losing, ofc its a nicer game to have a good team on the other side too.

+1

Most non-clanners complain about clans playing together, but noone is stopping them forming a clan on their own. I'd probably quit spring if clanning was disabled, playing with random noobs isn't enjoyable it's plain frustrating. I also find that if there are 3-4 clan members on 1 team, the rest is filled with noobs so an 8v8 game usually becomes 4v3 or 4v4 with the other 8 players generally taking up space . The other problem is that good players smurf to side with the clan (and this happens ALOT).

Overall I encourage the community to find people they enjoy playing with, and tag up together. It may not lead to the most balanced games, but at least everyone will have some element of fun playing with their mates.

Fix:
Allow players to be locked together in a team.
First you autobalance or cbalance like always than lock 2 or more player in their current team and all else are balanced.
This way good players(or players the host knows) are manually balanced while newbies and unknowns get autobalanced.

Another thing is to make 2 team commanders.
Each a good player and they both start picking turns choosing players for their team that get locked after they are chosen.

Nixa wrote: Overall I encourage the community to find people they enjoy playing with, and tag up together. It may not lead to the most balanced games, but at least everyone will have some element of fun playing with their mates.

this

Please integrate the !team command into your autohosts (bibim added experimental support for it in latest spads). This allows me to "clan" without having to leave the battle and log back in when I switch my name

neddiedrow wrote:Internal ranking system... like the one in each of your minds.

This is the best system but it doesn't work with large communities.

SirMaverick wrote:Patches are welcome.

I'm not going to waste my time on an inferior autohost system. There is spads.

Google_Frog wrote:

neddiedrow wrote:Internal ranking system... like the one in each of your minds.

This is the best system but it doesn't work with large communities.

When we have a large community we can worry about that.

Gota wrote:Fix:
Allow players to be locked together in a team.
First you autobalance or cbalance like always than lock 2 or more player in their current team and all else are balanced.
This way good players(or players the host knows) are manually balanced while newbies and unknowns get autobalanced.

Another thing is to make 2 team commanders.
Each a good player and they both start picking turns choosing players for their team that get locked after they are chosen.

I'm the team captain and I choose you!

I'm the other team captain and I choose you too!

Another thing is to make 2 team commanders.
Each a good player and they both start picking turns choosing players for their team that get locked after they are chosen.

Already suggested draft balancing modes for both SPADS and Springie.

http://springrts.com/phpbb/mcp.php?i=ma ... 1&p=352125

http://springrts.com/phpbb/mcp.php?i=ma ... 1&p=368320

The answer to Car's concern is simple, allow only one selection of a particular person per balance run, and include some indicator list of who is taken and who remains avaliable. I'm more than confident in the ability of the respective autohost developers to do that.

I'm not concerned with anything, it was a quote from a cool song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEVdca9U9LM