Spring RTS Engine

The two things in the middle-front are engines, not gun turrets!
(the weapon is the thing thats where the cockpit would normally be)

knowing that, why won't it fly?

something about a large floating maggot is balls stupid. Oh I am sorry, giant plated maggot.

MidKnight wrote:The two things in the middle-front are engines, not gun turrets!
(the weapon is the thing thats where the cockpit would normally be)

knowing that, why won't it fly?

Looks fine other than the fan on the back being irregular. What is the structure on the front of the top?

thats the gun/rocket launcher. Its weirdness is the result of a full 20 minutes of trying to make it not resemble a penis in any way shape or form >_<


PS: what's with the new avatars?

welcome spring. . . . .

smoth wrote:welcome spring. . . . .

????
PS: is that forum avatar Zero from the megaman games + heavy recolor?

maybe... ask Vabor

i don't know...
what do you think?

read my avatar.... starts at the red sprite...

then read this.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17876&start=80

Well, overall I'd say your getting better. The model does look a bit messy though, you could probably streamline the shape and clean up some messy faces.

It reminds me heavily of Saktoth's Banshee, which is not bad, but some more variation wouldn't be too much to ask. (I know Saktoth has some really good work, but it might be good to try and find other sources for your inspiration )

I really wish your camera angles were more revealing, or at least make more (smaller) pictures from different angles so we can see the whole unit. (unless you just want feedback on the one or two sides)

For the tail fan: make a separate piece (it is, after all supposed to move is it not) for the blades, completely independent of its housing.

Also, could you please explain what the thing on its head (front) is supposed to be? I am thoroughly perplexed at its function.

looking at it more, actually looks a lot like the valve gunship, which isnt *bad* per se. but its kinda like copying a famous painting or photo with a set of crayons. in the end you come up with a piece of work that is interesting, and quite different from the original, but leaves the viewer feeling uninspired. [imo]



id have gone with something a bit more like the planes on the LHS of that drawing, something a little more believable. that combine gunship fits with the rest of the combine stuff, which ranges from "demi-futuristic" to the "downright weird future biotech" and thus works within the HL universe.

more to the point, you haven't really addressed the reason why theres a dirty great fan stuck on the ass of that thing. especially when theres a pair of some sort of jet/rocket/fusion/whatever engines stuck on the end of those wings. why not just have another, smaller, engine of the same type on the back?

the models (and textures) are part of the game's visual language. its how the engine communicates to the user. if that language doesn't make sense, the user is going to be confused. if you are going to handwave it with "it uses some sort of advanced antigrav technology" thats fine, but then why have the fan and the jets at all?

while the model is neat (and 10/10 points for effort) it needs refining, and like some of your other models it shows a lack of understanding of aerodynamics and how shit works in general. As Sak should be telling you (if he hasnt already) a player is only going to suspend his/her disbelief so far, and while the 'Rule of Cool' does apply there are limits.

tl:dr for the last part: you have awesome ideas,you just need to organise them so the output is a single coherent piece of work that makes sense

Thanks for the comments! I'm always trying to get better (as is everyone )

maackey wrote:Well, overall I'd say your getting better. The model does look a bit messy though, you could probably streamline the shape and clean up some messy faces.

I blame blender's sub par subdivide function
also, could you please point out places where polies are especially messy?

It reminds me heavily of Saktoth's Banshee, which is not bad, but some more variation wouldn't be too much to ask. (I know Saktoth has some really good work, but it might be good to try and find other sources for your inspiration )

I did use saktoth's banshee fr inspiration, but remember, there are few plausible designs for a core gunship in the CA style (pre-emptive strike! AFAIK the CA Core style is angular and kind of low-tech-looking; Saktoth (and many other CA devs ) would crush rounded and curvy core gunship designs, along with those with wings. )

I really wish your camera angles were more revealing, or at least make more (smaller) pictures from different angles so we can see the whole unit. (unless you just want feedback on the one or two sides)

give me an angle, and I'll post a pic with that angle
alternatively you could open the source file and pan arond.

For the tail fan: make a separate piece (it is, after all supposed to move is it not) for the blades, completely independent of its housing.

I'll do that after I replace the curent fan with one made from a 9 sided cylinder

Also, could you please explain what the thing on its head (front) is supposed to be? I am thoroughly perplexed at its function.

It's the rocket turret (the things on the jets are sensors or vents, depending on whether or not Saktth lets me put round sensors on a core unit). the turret rotates and fires arcing projectiles.

Pressure Line wrote:looking at it more, actually looks a lot like the valve gunship, which isnt *bad* per se. but its kinda like copying a famous painting or photo with a set of crayons. in the end you come up with a piece of work that is interesting, and quite different from the original, but leaves the viewer feeling uninspired. [imo]




id have gone with something a bit more like the planes on the LHS of that drawing, something a little more believable. that combine gunship fits with the rest of the combine stuff, which ranges from "demi-futuristic" to the "downright weird future biotech" and thus works within the HL universe.

the only Valve game I've ever played more than 20 minutes of is Portal

also: Saktoth drew those concepts??!?!? I thought he hated putting wings on gunships! aaauugghh the universe is collapsing!

more to the point, you haven't really addressed the reason why theres a dirty great fan stuck on the ass of that thing. especially when theres a pair of some sort of jet/rocket/fusion/whatever engines stuck on the end of those wings. why not just have another, smaller, engine of the same type on the back?

KROW. Super secret micro text: I have a krow replacement coming up sometime in the next 10 years with an even bigger giant fan! ^_^

Also I <3 he idea of a fan driven by surrounding electromagnets, railgun style (which is what i imagine whenever I see krow/this gunship)

I was originally planning to just give it 2 wing fans, but I decided not to mid-concept sketch because A: it looks way too steampunk and old, B: it's too roundish for core aesthetic, C: it'd have the same basic design as Saktoth's gunship and end up looking like its disfigured twin, and D: its just plain UGLY

so I replaced the fans with the big square engines you see here, and added the propulsion/stability/recoil reduction fan at the back

while the model is neat (and 10/10 points for effort) it needs refining, and like some of your other models it shows a lack of understanding of aerodynamics and how shit works in general. As Sak should be telling you (if he hasnt already) a player is only going to suspend his/her disbelief so far, and while the 'Rule of Cool' does apply there are limits.

why wouldn't it fly? please, tell me!

tl:dr for the last part: you have awesome ideas,you just need to organise them so the output is a single coherent piece of work that makes sense

One of these days I should post my drawn concepts >_>
there are tons of ideas in there that are awesome but I lack the skill to make .

its more a case of you having loads of awesome ideas, but then trying to put them all on a single model. for ex your giant fan hanging off the ass of that thing; theres nothing wrong with it in isolation, or on a unit that is designed around such a thing, but it looks out of place when its sitting between a pair of high-tech jet/rocket/whatever engines.

to answer your recurring question: given that the two things on the end of the wings are some sort of engine, there is no reason that it couldnt fly. it just looks *wrong*

as a counterpoint, your llt and hlt models are great. they show a singular vision, and dont look like some technological frankenstein built out of an aerospace junkyard.

the idea of a magnetically accelerated fan blade is cool, but the player cannot *see* that, so its irrelavent. it could be powered by a thousand hamster wheels for all the player cares.

remember what i said about looking at modern (RL) vtol aircraft, and at units in other games (C&C Orca comes to mind) in your brawler thread? i'd still encourage you to do that. planes with short thick straight wings are generally low-speed ground attack planes (A-10 plz?) and planes with thin swept/delta wings are fast air superiority (and supersonic bombers) planes. you (or the player) may not 'know' this in the technical sense, but you understand it instinctively, which is why an F-22 *looks* fast and an A-10 doesnt.

obviously for aircraft that doent rely on wings for lift the rules are a bit different. but the same general ideas still apply, the unit has to look balanced.

*srsly, im not trying to troll you. just trying to hammer it into your head that while mix/matching design ideas with a faction's units is ok, its probably best to avoid doing it on a single unit.*

I blame blender's sub par subdivide function
also, could you please point out places where polies are especially messy?

Don't blame blender. If your model looks bad its your fault, not the program's. You are the one making the model, so you must learn to use blender correctly. One of the reasons I use Wings3D INSTEAD of blender is it's much simpler and easier to learn and use properly. Blender can be really good, but you need to know how to use it.
Some stuff is just unnecessarily jagged, and other stuff you use so many polygons for flat surfaces.

I did use saktoth's banshee fr inspiration, but remember, there are few plausible designs for a core gunship in the CA style (pre-emptive strike! AFAIK the CA Core style is angular and kind of low-tech-looking; Saktoth (and many other CA devs ) would crush rounded and curvy core gunship designs, along with those with wings. )

Wings are fine for gunships, but they need to be gunship wings, not plane wings (ie. short and stubby, not long or swept) There are many other different shapes besides round and curvy and square and boxy, btw. You just made up some arbitrary restrictions on what you think Core CA gunship. For lack of a better phrase, "Think outside the box".

give me an angle, and I'll post a pic with that angle
alternatively you could open the source file and pan arond.

Orthographic X, Y, and Z, and a perspective view at some angle (frontish, and maybe another one from behind/below)
Finding, then downloading a mediocre at best WIP model, and loading it up into a modeling program is far too much work. If you want to show your model off, its best just to take some good screenshots. One X, Y, Z and a couple perspectives gives all the detail you need for someone to see most of your model.

It's the rocket turret (the things on the jets are sensors or vents, depending on whether or not Saktth lets me put round sensors on a core unit). the turret rotates and fires arcing projectiles.

Rocket turret on top is a bad idea imo... just... Why?!? Its a gunship. It shoots ground units. Why place the launcher on the other side of the unit?!

Try not to focus on trivial greebles like round sensors, and get a good overview of the entire unit as a whole instead.

I was originally planning to just give it 2 wing fans, but I decided not to mid-concept sketch because A: it looks way too steampunk and old, B: it's too roundish for core aesthetic, C: it'd have the same basic design as Saktoth's gunship and end up looking like its disfigured twin, and D: its just plain UGLY

Nooooooooooooo!
A: Steampunk is AWESOME.
B: wtf is with the lotus then?!? its round as hell and it's a core unit.
C: how the hell did I know you copied Sak's gunship??? because it IS its disfigured twin.
D: That is probably the only good reason you gave for re-doing the model.

the geometry on the gunship model is messed up.

TheRegisteredOne wrote:the geometry on the gunship model is messed up.

It really it.

Midknight: try making simpler stuff with correct geometry.

WOAH! lots and lots of posts! I'll ry to reply in full, but it may take a while, keep your eyes peeled for replies

FULL REPLY:

messy.jpg

Some stuff is just unnecessarily jagged, and other stuff you use so many polygons for flat surfaces.

noted. will be fixed once model design is finalized

For lack of a better phrase, "Think outside the box".

see cylinderbot We dont want that happening again, now do we?

will post orthographic views once I win my constant battle with laziness

Rocket turret on top is a bad idea imo... just... Why?!? Its a gunship. It shoots ground units. Why place the launcher on the other side of the unit?!

If I were to put it on the underside, why should I bother modeling it? Also, the CA rapier shoots air too. And thirdly: arcing rockets on the rapier would look AWESOME imo when attacking ground units.

Try not to focus on trivial greebles like round sensors, and get a good overview of the entire unit as a whole instead.

good point, although I wasnt focusing on them until people mistook them for turrets. They're just a greeble

Nooooooooooooo!
A: Steampunk is AWESOME.

I agree with you, but...
...for *A?

B: wtf is with the lotus then?!? its round as hell and it's a core unit.

smoth wrote:that looks like it would work with the ca arm style if given a better texture.

Licho wrote:Shape is definitely arm style :)

Saktoth wrote:Absolutely an arm unit.

That





now on to pressureline's post:

Pressure Line wrote:its more a case of you having loads of awesome ideas, but then trying to put them all on a single model. for ex your giant fan hanging off the ass of that thing; theres nothing wrong with it in isolation, or on a unit that is designed around such a thing, but it looks out of place when its sitting between a pair of high-tech jet/rocket/whatever engines.

I'm thinking of removing the fan. (see concept pics)
The only issue is that I had planned to remake krow with a fan, but that's minor.

If enough people agree that I should make this without a fan, then I shall. so please post your opinions

the idea of a magnetically accelerated fan blade is cool, but the player cannot *see* that, so its irrelavent. it could be powered by a thousand hamster wheels for all the player cares.

remember what i said about looking at modern (RL) vtol aircraft, and at units in other games (C&C Orca comes to mind) in your brawler thread? i'd still encourage you to do that. planes with short thick straight wings are generally low-speed ground attack planes (A-10 plz?) and planes with thin swept/delta wings are fast air superiority (and supersonic bombers) planes. you (or the player) may not 'know' this in the technical sense, but you understand it instinctively, which is why an F-22 *looks* fast and an A-10 doesnt.obviously for aircraft that doent rely on wings for lift the rules are a bit different. but the same general ideas still apply, the unit has to look balanced.

again, very informative, and I will probably end up referring to this post a lot while I work on my possible arm fighter plane(s)


@TRO, hoi: see my reply to maackey's first item





PS I finally got hp's scanner drivers to stop trying to commit suicide and start working. this means I can post concept pics:
In chronological order:

Random sketches, labelled in illegible handwriting for your convenience. A cookie to whoever can find the Bahamut Zero/Tera Bahamut posing as a mech/illegible scribble in this post )

More sketches


My first-ever turret concept, for which I lack the necessary skills to make. (this was made before I joined the CA team, and even before I made Betta )

Flame tank concept. Can only fire forwards, and has horribly armored back and bad turnrate, but incredible damage. Basically the essence (imo) of riot units

Lotus and Gaat Gun concept sketches

Raven concept sketch

Raven glamour pic I made today

Is this better, guys?

which are taking multiple forevers to upload

use jpeg

Hoi wrote:

which are taking multiple forevers to upload

use jpeg

NEVAH! BMP FTW!

actually, next time I'll use png thw PwNaGe format, hp software just prefers bmp