Spring RTS Engine

By the way the reason for my personal attack and dislike for Yan is because he tried to hijack the project and shows no sign of apology for this, as soon as this failed he immediately came back here and started pestering again.

I don't feel he deserves his ideas to be discussed at this point until he shows an ounce of maturity.

Gota wrote:And i dont need respect i jsut want the game iv been playing on and of for a few years to be as good as it can be.

smoth wrote:you need respect if you want to be heard otherwise you get ignored. Also you method of talking to noize, was it the same way you talked to fang? If so you may have already burned all bridges with noize.

was already pointed out to him and the idea was unable to make contact with what accounts for Yan's brain. It was like watch Neo dodge bullets except this time picture a brain dodging learning.

hey guize, this forum has an ignore function for a reason. I very rarely get riled by anything Yan says simply because I don't even see it. Time and time again I will click "show this message" only to realize that he is ignored for a reason.

hey bana, not funny.

BaNa wrote:hey guize, this forum has an ignore function for a reason. I very rarely get riled by anything Yan says simply because I don't even see it. Time and time again I will click "show this message" only to realize that he is ignored for a reason.

you don't have him spamming you about your project.

smoth wrote: you don't have him spamming you about your project.

It still causes rage even if its not our project, because we enjoy said project the way the creators intended it.

I am here trying to help aren't I? I just think there is no solution to the yan problem.

Beherith wrote:

smoth wrote: you don't have him spamming you about your project.

It still causes rage even if its not our project, because we enjoy said project the way the creators intended it.

The way the creators intended it?you mean the all knowing creators intended on making annihilator grossly underpowered because there is a good reason to do so??

smoth wrote:

BaNa wrote:hey guize, this forum has an ignore function for a reason. I very rarely get riled by anything Yan says simply because I don't even see it. Time and time again I will click "show this message" only to realize that he is ignored for a reason.

you don't have him spamming you about your project.

The next X Prize: Solve the Yan problem.

But first, explain turbulent flow.

Can you idiots shut up with this drama nonsense and talk about how to make the mod better?

Whoever pointed out the differences between the Annih and Doomsday, I think there's definitely something there worth looking at.

Special damages are also a good point. I'm not saying they're bad, but they definitely are unintuitive. Maybe there's some way the special damages could be made more obvious? For example, snipers could have "anti-T3" in their name, or something like that.

People need to stop assuming that just cause BA 6.7 was rejected and noone will talk to gota that some of his changes wont be looked at if they are infact improvements...

Gota's got a few valid points but he's going about things entirely wrong if he wants them to actually get implemented at some point.

Anyway, Beef is right about special damages being unintuitive. I really like special damages as a balancing tool, but it has to be made clear in the unit description. Maybe BA should consider a longer unit description that could state not just the basic role of the unit but also what kind of units it counters well?

el_matarife wrote:I really like special damages as a balancing tool

but not in a game like BA imo.

in a game where every unit has the capacity to damage another (disregarding air-only weapons) it doesnt really make sense for a BB to do 2x as much damage to a Millenium than a fusion. in a game like s44 where a submachinegun is going to have no affect vs a tanks armor but lethal affect on another soldier. there are better ways to achieve the same effect (but these require a lot more work than using special damages)

Just hide the hitpoint numbers, then noone will know what does double or half damage or whatever and just remember X needs Y shots to kill Z...

REVENGE wrote: The next X Prize: Solve the Yan problem.

Solution:
Make it so gotas posts only appear to himself. Like his own version of the forum in his warped dimension.

Why must there be special damages vs t3?
why not just make certain balance changes to make snipers naturally a T3 counter....like makign them do even more damage per shot but reduce their reload time to and even lower number.
That way using snipers on smaller t1 and t2 units would be more wasteful while using them on big heavy units with a lot of hp would be very usefull...
You don't need special hidden damages that nobody knows about until they go look at the numbers inside the mod.
And did anyone even look at the special damages of anti air turrets?
Here is an example:
core mobile flak:
Damages:
default = 850
VTRANS = 150
L1FIGHTERS = 127
L2FIGHTERS = 112
L1BOMBERS = 150
L2BOMBERS = 150
GUNSHIPS = 150
HGUNSHIPS = 75
VRADAR = 150
VTOL = 150

How was this decided?
Did anyone look at the fighters and their damages?a huge mess.
instead of giving special damages some untis can be rebalanced and all anti air damages can be made to be normal.
So an anti air weapon will just have one damage value and not 10,one for each type of unit.
also fighters are much much more cost effective than flak guns..one t2 fighter that costs around 155(metla plus energy) will do more damage than a flak gun that costs 1k+.

The flak guns and t2 fighters is another example of a crude misbalance but its not so urgent..most good players know not to build static flaks.
Th point is there are many stuff that can be changes without strong balance changes...with just a little bit of tunning you can make more things more usefull and better balanced versus everything else.

In most cases where there is a high default damage and lower special damages this was made to get bigger explosion effects when using default explosions Spring offers...

When talking about the rest:
Yeah - some things are a bit odd but many of them were made because the devs think they were fun and as things turned out the way it was wanted it stayed that way. That's also why I quit whining about the Annihilator as I was told that people think its only real purpose is to be built at front and snipe enemy buildings due to the high range. I still think this is "stupid" in terms of Merls & Co being better at the job but I won't come up with the entire argumentation yet again. The Annihilator is wanted to be that way and so be it just as fighters being the only really good air defense. When talking about this & flaks you missed the flaks purpose of being anti-swarm (i.e. anti gunship) though...

I'll now give you an advice Sleksa gave me for numerous times and that most certainly was one of the reasons I started making Maximum Annihilation:
GO MAKE YOUR OWN MOD!

[Krogoth86] wrote:In most cases where there is a high default damage and lower special damages this was made to get bigger explosion effects when using default explosions Spring offers...

When talking about the rest:
Yeah - some things are a bit odd but many of them were made because the devs think they were fun and as things turned out the way it was wanted it stayed that way. That's also why I quit whining about the Annihilator as I was told that people think its only real purpose is to be built at front and snipe enemy buildings due to the high range. I still think this is "stupid" in terms of Merls & Co being better at the job but I won't come up with the entire argumentation yet again. The Annihilator is wanted to be that way and so be it just as fighters being the only really good air defense. When talking about this & flaks you missed the flaks purpose of being anti-swarm (i.e. anti gunship) though...

I'll now give you an advice Sleksa gave me for numerous times and that most certainly was one of the reasons I started making Maximum Annihilation:
GO MAKE YOUR OWN MOD!

you cant make a mod just like ba with a few changes and expect it to work...it cant happen.
BA is obviously not yet finished since it was just updated with balance changes..
There is no reason why good changes cant make it into the next version.

If balance cant be talked about using reason and logical arguments than whats this thread all about?

Doesn't it make more sense that when recommanding a change a person would provide data in the form of a unit's stats and costs in comparison with other units?how else can you balance a mod?

If you build an annihilator ATM it is cheaper for the other guy to build an air lab and the bombers nessesary to bomb an annihilator on the first bombing run(5 t1 bombers of a total cost of about 1.3k cost (metal + energy) and he will still have about 1k metal to spare..

Yeah i missed flak being an area damage weapon but i also missed fighters being able to move all around the map!If i scout the enemy has flaks in one place i will sand my bombers the other way but i cant out maneuver fighters like this.

the problem with your arguments is that there is only one kind of damage, and anti air only makes a lot of damage on air units, so rebalancing the global damage would change its behavior completely

Satirik wrote:the problem with your arguments is that there is only one kind of damage, and anti air only makes a lot of damage on air units, so rebalancing the global damage would change its behavior completely

I don't understand.
Anti air turrets have special damages to all types of airplanes.
Tt is too much of a change for BA i suppose but in theory there is nothing stopping a modder from changing the AA damages so that each AA turret or unit will have only 1 damage value instead of 150 for bombers and 140 for fighters etc...
A mutual damage for all air units,just like many other units of BA have one general damage value.
all these crazy values and balances make huge waves of disbalance across the mod,for example:
The fact flak weapons are so shit makes blades a lot worse since they have an editional cost for being anti flak gunships.

A Blade can be balanced so as to cost less since his anti flak ability is much less usefull(cause flaks turrets are not cost effective and fighters are ultra cost effective) but that just makes him to be less an individual interesting unit and makes it more generic,just a heavy brawler(that is ATM too expenssive for its cost).
If flak weapons were balanced good than the balde could have done less damage for cost than brawlers with equal resource costs but would be more usefull in situations when the enemy builds a lot of flak..
So,ATM,instead of an interesting unit with its own purpose u get a boring one.
There is no point adding units if they aren't really useful.

But lets concentrate on the annihilator.
If you build an annihilator ATM it is cheaper for the other guy to build an air lab and the bombers nessesary to bomb an annihilator on the first bombing run(5 t1 bombers of a total cost of about 1.3k cost (metal + energy) and he will still have about 1k metal to spare..

An annihilator is built on the front line and there is no way in BA to prevent bombers from dropping bombs once on the Annihilator(and don't say long range AA missile turrets since they are so expensive you could build another 20 t1 bomber for each long range missile turret)