Spring RTS Engine

Because core rulez and balanced annihilation is balanced. Thats all i have to say.

On minelayers and their little anti-mine gun. It shoots at enemies, it sometimes goes pew pew and blocks the firing of its real gun (this is due to the scripting).

So yeah its a bug but its relatively unimportant as people rarely even use the minelayer for mineclearin (esp now there is a juno).

On the karg vs the razor. The razorback used to be even MORE colossally useless, it was buffed relatively recently- but its just not been buffed up to the point where its as good as the karg yet.

The idea is (this is a cayderism) that both arm and core have a t3 all terrain bot. For arm its the vanguard, for core its the karganeth. Thats just the way it works. So the all-terrain nature of the karg is considered weighted against the all-terrain of the vanguard- not against any ability that the razor might have.

Truth is though, all of arm t3 is just plain old worse than core t3. The only possibly exception to this is the vanguard. Thats kinda just how it is.

kiki wrote:Another question: I was told that Beavers were cheaper, had better slope tolerance, and better armor than the regular conbot. Is this true? If so, why build conbots when beavers are better? I havent had time to investigate this yet.

Check for yourself: http://modinfo.adune.nl/index.php?MOD=ba60

Note that slope tolerances are actually defined in MOVEINFO; the MaxSlope given to an individual unit doesn't actually mean anything.

Also, if you want to go kbots, it's probably not worth it to build a vehicle fac just to build Beavers, even if they were strictly better.

Evil4Zerggin wrote: Note that slope tolerances are actually defined in MOVEINFO; the MaxSlope given to an individual unit doesn't actually mean anything.

Also, if you want to go kbots, it's probably not worth it to build a vehicle fac just to build Beavers, even if they were strictly better.

Looking it over, Beavers don't really measure up to conbots... however, a more interesting comparison is pincers vs. hammers. Once you figure that a Pincer is about 1.3 hammers in most attributes (dps, cost, armor), the Pincer looks a little expensive, a little short ranged, and really damned fast. Almost worth building a vehicle-lab on a kbot map for.

Pxtl wrote:

Evil4Zerggin wrote: Note that slope tolerances are actually defined in MOVEINFO; the MaxSlope given to an individual unit doesn't actually mean anything.

Also, if you want to go kbots, it's probably not worth it to build a vehicle fac just to build Beavers, even if they were strictly better.

Looking it over, Beavers don't really measure up to conbots... however, a more interesting comparison is pincers vs. hammers. Once you figure that a Pincer is about 1.3 hammers in most attributes (dps, cost, armor), the Pincer looks a little expensive, a little short ranged, and really damned fast. Almost worth building a vehicle-lab on a kbot map for.

Also for beavers, they don't have access to t2 labs, and there's no point to building them unless you're using vecs on a map with useful kbot pathable hills.

Pincer's expense and the los nature of their weapons is their downfall. They're rather "short" and their weapon isn't comparable to the Hammer's. They can be used for some careful raiding, but otherwise cost too much for their utility.

REVENGE wrote:Also for beavers, they don't have access to t2 labs

That seems dumb to me.

LordMatt wrote:That seems dumb to me.

I think it's a good trade-off for being amphibic. As it also has the possibiliry to build a subpen you at least can get some T2 amphibic tanks and especially for Core it's something you really should think about because you get Crocs and Poison Arrows from a lab that costs about as much as a normal T1 lab...

[Krogoth86] wrote:

LordMatt wrote:That seems dumb to me.

I think it's a good trade-off for being amphibic. As it also has the possibiliry to build a subpen you at least can get some T2 amphibic tanks and especially for Core it's something you really should think about because you get Crocs and Poison Arrows from a lab that costs about as much as a normal T1 lab...

No it isn't. The unit costs more and has slower build speed. That part is a good trade off for being amphibious. No L2 is stupid.

agreed. Juno kills mines and stealths where the missle hits, right? Also is a jammer too?

The juno kills mines, radars, and jammers in a MASSIVE radius.

One game every time i built radar, it would get juno'd, because he was just carpet-bombing me with junos.

Very frustrating and meant i couldnt hit him on the front line with arty (no radar).

So it acts automatically, or u have to target the radars?

kiki wrote:So it acts automatically, or u have to target the radars?

It acts just like a nuke or tactical missile launcher. It's a stockpile weapon where you have to order the building of each shot and when one is done you can tell as to where it should fire (there's no auto-firing). The explosion has a huge range and thus is very effective...

Does it stealth all friendly units in blast radius? Thats wot I heard.

kiki wrote:Does it stealth all friendly units in blast radius? Thats wot I heard.

No, it is just a nuke that only hits radars, jammers, sonars, Dragon's Eyes, and mines. It also works on mobile versions of radars and jammers. It doesn't work on seismic detectors or advanced radar targeting facilities however.

Edit: El Mata ninja'd me.

Of course it doesnt.

This is how it works.

Its just a weapon. It does special damage of just 1 to almost everything. It does special damage of over 9000 to a small sub set of very specific things: Radars, Jammers and Mines.

Its basically just a nuke that only hurts those things. Thats all. Imagine a nuke that only hurts wind generators, or only hurts peewees. Its the same. Thats what it is. Thats how it works.

It doesnt do any of this crazy stealthing in blast radius or tracking down enemy radars etc.

Saktoth wrote: Its just a weapon. It does special damage of just 1 to almost everything. It does special damage of over 9000 to a small sub set of very specific things: Radars, Jammers and Mines.

In fact, look in the bottom right corner under Damages for an elegant illustration of this concept: http://modinfo.adune.nl/?act=edit&side= ... 1&MOD=ba60 I suggest clicking on RADAR and MINES to get a better idea of what units and buildings are in those categories.

Please make amphibious t1 construction vehicles to be unable to climb hills.
Such a change will make kbots more worthwhile on larger maps and air as well(only if it is possible to make the amphib cons to reach underwater mexes while not being able to climb hills).
I also repeat my request to change the underwater mexes hovers can build for floating mexes.It will make hovers more susaptible to ships breaking their eco making ships more worthwhile on the longer run.

DZHIBRISH wrote:Please make amphibious t1 construction vehicles to be unable to climb hills.
Such a change will make kbots more worthwhile on larger maps and air as well(only if it is possible to make the amphib cons to reach underwater mexes while not being able to climb hills).

I think that's not going to be possible if you want it to have access to the seas in all conditions...

DZHIBRISH wrote:I also repeat my request to change the underwater mexes hovers can build for floating mexes.It will make hovers more susaptible to ships breaking their eco making ships more worthwhile on the longer run.

I don't like that idea...

1.)
Imo the principles behind such a floating mex are strange - should it have a drill and "conveyor belt" through the entire ocean to gain access to the metal deep in the ground?

2.)
Build one sub and enjoy the time lurking around and killing all of his mexes without any resistance...

DZHIBRISH wrote:Please make amphibious t1 construction vehicles to be unable to climb hills.
Such a change will make kbots more worthwhile on larger maps and air as well(only if it is possible to make the amphib cons to reach underwater mexes while not being able to climb hills).

*sigh* once again, you make suggestions having no idea whatsoever why things were done that way in the first place.

Do you think we like the silly exception of having amphib-vehicles actually being amphib-kbots in terms of the only technical difference (slope-tolerance)? Of course not. It's a stupid exception. Now, genius, why do you think that Caydr had to make that stupid exception? Because one naval map in ten had beaches that an amphib-vehicle could land upon. So amphib vehicles got kbot slope-tolerance.

I guess if the Juno really just created a temporary jamming field in the target area it would be a lot less overpowering...