Spring RTS Engine

Lippy wrote:

Hellspawn wrote:

BigSteve wrote:Flash needs a slight nerf imo, less armour or less firepower, not loads less but it seems very strong at the moment, Ive seen about 2 people play core in the last 20 games Ive played, stronger flash and weaker gator seems to be the reason.

No, balance is IMO perfect atm. Instigators own flashes in equal fight, but flashes are faster, so they are better for raiding (and worse for brute fighting).

+1

I strongly disagree. nobody plays core anymore for starters, most people say its because the flash is so good.
And insti dont own flashes in equal numbers they end up about evens or the instis only just scrape it.
Personally if im playing to win a game I'll never play core again. Arm are too strong in every department now.

jethro are kind of broken... just make them fire and you will see what happened to the opening animation :\

BigSteve wrote: I strongly disagree. nobody plays core anymore for starters, most people say its because the flash is so good.
And insti dont own flashes in equal numbers they end up about evens or the instis only just scrape it.
Personally if im playing to win a game I'll never play core again. Arm are too strong in every department now.

Well few days ago everybody except me and sleksa played core =/. I don't know if you micro gators they should kill equal number of flashes. Plus gators can be used as mobile llt, while you need to spam llts if you play arm. Gators can also fire trough wreckage when flashes can't (although in some rare cases it seems to be opposite, don't know why). Not to mention core lvl 2 vehicle is still slightly better then arms (reapers and goalies <_<.

I curently play both, arm and core it depends on map and what tactic I want to use. IMO vehicles are pretty even the greater problem is in lvl 2 bots...

edrush wrote:

Lippy wrote:

Ishach wrote:

Hey at least it aint speedmetal!

(Its actually not that bad a map; i found a lot of the games actually end in early T2)

yeah by maverick rush :/ Anybody else thinking that maverick is abit overpowered? lately too many games have ended by getting my base razed by one or two mavericks ( speed of maverick should be slowed down a bit?

They are extremely powerfull against T1 units and behind enemy lines, but other than that they actually suck against other T2 units and defenses. LLTs own mavericks hard. (2 llts will gun down a lone mav, while HLTs absolutely obliterate them!)

BigSteve wrote: I strongly disagree. nobody plays core anymore for starters, most people say its because the flash is so good.
And insti dont own flashes in equal numbers they end up about evens or the instis only just scrape it.
Personally if im playing to win a game I'll never play core again. Arm are too strong in every department now.

I've seen quite a lot of core players around, i must admit not as many as arm, but a decent amount. However you cannot say that people dont play core because of 2 units! There are 364 other units in the game, 1 unit will not make very much difference in their choice. (Unless youre a player who spams 1 unit all the time....)

join some games, nearly every top player I see now plays as arm, leave it as is, I dont really care, I cba to argue anymore Im sick of it ^^
Just have fun playing your lovely varied arm vs arm games, as thats all ive seen over the last few days, maybe youll see an occasional core player but theyll change soon enough, :)

And as for people not playing core bcause of 1 unit, well youre right thats probably not true, but most of the people I asked seemed to mention the flash, but im also guessing its because of the huge range on bulldogs, the super panthers and the beefed up penetrator

BigSteve wrote:join some games, nearly every top player I see now plays as arm, leave it as is, I dont really care, I cba to argue anymore Im sick of it ^^
Just have fun playing your lovely varied arm vs arm games, as thats all ive seen over the last few days, maybe youll see an occasional core player but theyll change soon enough, :)

And as for people not playing core bcause of 1 unit, well youre right thats probably not true, but most of the people I asked seemed to mention the flash, but im also guessing its because of the huge range on bulldogs, the super panthers and the beefed up penetrator

Goalies > Bulldogs
Reapers > Panthers

Penetrators are nice and kinda even lvl 2.

I just tried playing spring 2.23 with the last version i've played being 2.11- the game balance is so so much different its stupid. I really don't know how you can make more than 300 changes between 2.11 and 2.23 and know how the game will play (i swear half of the changes were pointlessly fiddling around with the stats of random units just for the sheer point of it).

The ratio of buffed/nerfed units definitely seems to benefit arm. level 1 balance seems to have changed...do any of cores lvl 1 units come close to arm equivilent anymore?

Hellspawn wrote:

BigSteve wrote:join some games, nearly every top player I see now plays as arm, leave it as is, I dont really care, I cba to argue anymore Im sick of it ^^
Just have fun playing your lovely varied arm vs arm games, as thats all ive seen over the last few days, maybe youll see an occasional core player but theyll change soon enough, :)

And as for people not playing core bcause of 1 unit, well youre right thats probably not true, but most of the people I asked seemed to mention the flash, but im also guessing its because of the huge range on bulldogs, the super panthers and the beefed up penetrator

Goalies > Bulldogs
Reapers > Panthers

Penetrators are nice and kinda even lvl 2.

the difference between the two sets of units isnt enough for me, Id still play arm everytime. As do most people now it seems.
Metal for metal panthers take on and beat bulldogs frequently, me and drex tested it, so reapers will go the same way^^

[quote="BigSteve"]

the difference between the two sets of units isnt enough for me, Id still play arm everytime. As do most people now it seems.
/quote]

oh you mean like Flashes and Peewees?

BigSteve wrote:join some games, nearly every top player I see now plays as arm, leave it as is, I dont really care, I cba to argue anymore Im sick of it ^^

Yeah, want to know why? Because for 2.11, all they got to play was Core, because of the absurdly OP AKs and Gators. Now that the Flash has been buffed a little (look at the actual changes, they're tiny) the two sides are more even.

BoredJoe wrote:I just tried playing spring 2.23 with the last version i've played being 2.11- the game balance is so so much different its stupid. I really don't know how you can make more than 300 changes between 2.11 and 2.23 and know how the game will play (i swear half of the changes were pointlessly fiddling around with the stats of random units just for the sheer point of it).

The ratio of buffed/nerfed units definitely seems to benefit arm. level 1 balance seems to have changed...do any of cores lvl 1 units come close to arm equivilent anymore?

Erm, maybe it's because you skipped 2 revisions? It went 2.11->2.21->2.22->2.23. Had you kept pace, the changes would not have been so steep.

Have you tried the leveller? It pwns lvl 1 units!

BigSteve wrote:Metal for metal panthers take on and beat bulldogs frequently, me and drex tested it, so reapers will go the same way^^

Damn, tested it as well, and it seems that its true, both bulldogs and reapers will lose out metal for metal... Looks like panthers might need a nerf, especially as they should have the same role as zeuses; defence busters (on the other hand pyros > zeuses cost for cost...)

Lippy wrote:Damn, tested it as well, and it seems that its true, both bulldogs and reapers will lose out metal for metal... Looks like panthers might need a nerf, especially as they should have the same role as zeuses; defence busters (on the other hand pyros > zeuses cost for cost...)

I'd disagree. There are already plenty of vehicle defense busters - Bulldogs, for example. Panthers should be close combat skirmishers.

And Panthers get Anti Air. For a unit that seems to be able to take on bulldogs on level terms this seems a bit much.

And core vs arm. Not sure of balance. I used to play core all the time and have switched to arm recently and have been losing a bit and it just doesn't feel natural to me at the moment. But I am far from used to the new versions.

My impression was that arm was fast and hit and run and raid. And core was heavy slow and powerful. So flash should be better than instigator. But core should be able to fight back with stuff like cans and maybe the heavier level 1 tanks (raiders?) Maybe I'll go try core some time and see how units like that work instead of going for insti spam. Or someone with actual experience (with that strategy) can tell us all how/why that sucks bad.....

Core's medium tanks should be stronger maybe, and the who the hell uses reapers when you can build gollies? Or a mix of both?

Err, reapers pwn hard. Gollies turrets turn too slow to be a general purpose tank whereas reapers are just purrfect.

jellyman wrote:And Panthers get Anti Air. For a unit that seems to be able to take on bulldogs on level terms this seems a bit much.

Panthers DPS :

76.8

Their missiles have weak tracking, but also attack air units - doing more damage then the normal 56 (74 against gunships and 99 against fighters/transports/bombers for example).

I think the panther's AA/Ground missile should be ground only.

http://froob.iamacup.com/AAmodweb/units_armlatnk.html

Also, right now I'm thinking of the panther as a tank-zipper, Run past defenses to attack enemy econ or as AK vs Peewee when it comes to 1v1ing a Bulldog, if you micro the panther and stay at the edge of your lightning gun's range - you'l be able to kill the bulldog, albit with heavy microing, otherwise - the panther dies.

Panthers for me work like Flash tanks with more armor and range.

You can spam em, and use the Surround n Pound method to defeat heavier tanks quite easily.

Foxomaniac wrote:I think the panther's AA/Ground missile should be ground only.

or else, air only

AA missiles should take down Zippers, though. Keeps the zipper rushers honest.

Egarwaen wrote:

BigSteve wrote:join some games, nearly every top player I see now plays as arm, leave it as is, I dont really care, I cba to argue anymore Im sick of it ^^

Yeah, want to know why? Because for 2.11, all they got to play was Core, because of the absurdly OP AKs and Gators. Now that the Flash has been buffed a little (look at the actual changes, they're tiny) the two sides are more even.

Thats wrong im afraid, the difference between the flash and insti and many of the other arm and core units in 2.11 was never enough to put people off playing play as arm, theres always been slighty more arm players than core. On a vehicle map like comet youd tend go core but arm were more than adequate to get by imo.
Play the new version more, do some tests and you'll see the sides aren't even atall. You will seriously struggle playing core against a good arm player now. Theres nothing core can do that arm cant do at least aswell or better.