Spring RTS Engine

Google_Frog wrote:Why does the obelisk cost so much compared to everything else that can be placed on a vent? It would be a reasonable counter to pointers if it had less bt. System is very good against Hacker because of pointers.

A link to all the maps would be very useful for a kp web page.

It simply has a long BT because it can fire immediately after being built (and then after 40 seconds again IIRC), the other two superweapons have to charge for 90 seconds first (though it counts from the beginnning of the construction). Maybe the limited range is enough balancing so the BT doesn't need to be that long. Anyone else got input?

AF wrote:If hosting is the issue I have offered hosting for such sites for quite a while despite nobody taking up the offer.

I'd rather have it hosted by spring.clan-sy.com which is the official Spring site than another side site with much less visited.

Making a kernel panic website should be easy what with the style and all. And that wiki page is no excuse. While its an exceptional wiki page,

the spring wiki looks fugly

I disagree, it's simple, effective, the color are pleasant, the fonts are readable, there's no stock images/decoration left or other irrelevant distraction, etc...

the wiki is going to be rebuilt anyway so if your handing out that address your going to have a lot of annoyed users with their 404 messages in a month or two's time.

Oh no! However I just hope you're talking about the revamping of Spring's website, which has been talked for so many years that I don't believe in it anymore. I also count on Spring's admins to be competent enough to not make all url go 404 after the rebuilding (which would indeed be terribly bad).

AF wrote:A lot of this could be as simple as sticking a Kernel panic banner inside a table with 3 rows, one for the banner, one for the menu, and one for the content, then copy pasting what you already have in there, then assigning coloured borders and a black background.

The problem is not spending 15 mins to make an html page, the problem is making sure:
1) People find that page, by accident, and by remembering where to find it.
2) Anybody can update it.

I'm under the impression KDR_11k would rather update the mod than webpage, I am drifting away, it doesn't look like Boirunner is following anymore, etc... If there was a website, then only the website admin could update it, and the one person in charge would probably get lazy and not do it, and so the next person caring about Kernel Panic would have to relocate elsewhere, etc... Yes, I know there could several people having FTP or whatever password, but it's not like any new guy could get it, so a freely editable wiki sounded best. Yes, the kernel panic website could be built on wiki, but I'd rather not waste days configuring a wiki.

The only advantage I see in geting a KP website would be to have it have its own domain name, http://www.kernel-panic.net or whatever, making it look more professional and more like a standalone game, and less like a side-project modification of Spring. But I'm too internet-illerate to know how domains are bought (plus I'm paranoid that it'd lead to my real name.)

KDR_11k wrote:Anyone else got input?

As for obelisks, bah, I never liked the introduction of turrets to Kernel Panic. But I admit the obelisk and its weapon are very nice visually, and technically.

Google_Frog wrote:A link to all the maps would be very useful for a kp web page.

Agreed. I added a "maps" link in http://spring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Kernel_P ... oad_links: but it's incomplete. (also, wiki, so you can edit it) Not sure about how to add a link to each map without the page becoming messy (which I guess shows AF has a point and that cramming all KP info in a single page isn't that good.) Eventually I need to rebuild the KP standalone installer.

Pxtl wrote:Any plans to re-diversify the mines system? I liked how in Corruption, the Evil had a different mine-layer-system from the System. Or are you sticking to each faction having the same mine placer/clear system?

The system mine's byte launcher is pretty new! And I made sure you can still play as old corruption's hacker! But yeah, could be fun if each side had a different way of laying mines. Not terribly important though. As for the mine clearing system, it's so rarely used that same one for each faction is enough.

It took me 10 minutes to set up the file wiki on darkstars:

• 9 minutes uploading the files
• 1 minute filling in my user name and password for the admin account

And yes the new spring site is doing away with the whole wiki and starting from scratch, everything will need to be moved over or rewritten. And the current site is indeed fugly, which is the common consensus.

Your point about nobody finding the kernel panic page by accident if its not in the spring wiki also sort of falls apart when you apply the same logic to any other website not currently in springs wiki. Not to mention that people rarely look in the wiki anyway so the chances of somebody stumbling upon your random page is tiny. I wouldn't be surprised if all the visits to it in the last month only occurred because people clicked your link in your previous post for a look.

But most of all, you don't have to do it yourself, there's no reason why you cant ask for help!

I also happen to think something like http://kernelpanic.darkstars.co.uk is easier to remember than http://spring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Kernel_Panic and if anybody did buy a domain for a hosted site Id be happy to sort out the whole DNS thing for them so they don't need to bother figuring out how to use and set up domain names.

AF wrote:It took me 10 minutes to set up the file wiki on darkstars

But will you take 2 mins to update it everytime I fix a typo on Kernel's Panic page?

[qutoe]Your point about nobody finding the kernel panic page by accident if its not in the spring wiki also sort of falls apart when you apply the same logic to any other website not currently in springs wiki.[/quote]I never visit caspring.org, Imperial Winter's site which I don't even know the url of, 1944 site, and all the other I don't even know exist*. Based on my own experience, I conclude it's probably the same for others.

* Not that I have even anything against you, I fact I do feel bad for never remembering to check you and missing all the intelligent (because you probably don't have all main site trolls and BAers) and productive discussion (cause that's what you're for) that you have there.

I also happen to think something like http://kernelpanic.darkstars.co.uk is easier to remember than http://spring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Kernel_Panic

I disagree, because the dual domain .co.uk took me years to not forget half of, and because also I'm certain the beginning of http://spring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Kernel_Panic is already known by all Springers, so there's only the end (= moar little) to learn.

It's funny to see that every discussion between you and me, and not only the AI one, is devolving the same way. Hmm, I wonder what will happen when I'll enquire about your lobby. (As a KP themed lobby could be nice, and also I find worth trying the whole concept of competing interoperating lobby for bigger diverstiy and interracial love for a prettier future.)

Needs KP skins for all lobbies nao.

KDR_11k wrote:Anyone else got input?

As for obelisks, bah, I never liked the introduction of turrets to Kernel Panic. But I admit the obelisk and its weapon are very nice visually, and technically.

Agreed, I'm an Evilless player at heart, though you've seen me test and play the current versions.

zwzsg wrote:

AF wrote:It took me 10 minutes to set up the file wiki on darkstars

But will you take 2 mins to update it everytime I fix a typo on Kernel's Panic page?

I could do that, I think, until we find another maintainer.

That's because at the moment my points are based in logic, whereas your are based on your personal preferences. Your not really discussing or agreeing with my points either, your just dismissing them using your personal browsing habits as justification =(

What puzzles me though is why you would need me to spend time updating the site for when you've made a typo? Surely its a simple matter of loading the page up, clicking edit, fixing the typo, and pressing save? Unless I'm missing something about how wikis work lol..

However putting aside your personal browsing habits lets take one of the sites that fits into the category you gave. You don't visit darkstars much I assume? Google analytics says 129,983 recorded page views since 2006, and I haven't had the google analytics tracking code on all my pages, and most of those hits have been since I redid the site using the blog format in october 2007, nm the gaps where zero traffic was reported as I didn't have any tracking code anywhere.. But still I'm quite happy that ~130k pages have been viewed!

Either way you cant really use yourself as a model for user browsing habits as by being involved in development you've set yourself out as anything but an end user ^_^

A subdomain like that isn't easier to find than a URL IMO, a proper domain would be best. Seems Zw found a spelling that isn't taken yet (cue registrar parking it in 3...2...).

The obelisk isn't much of a turret IMO.

Anyway, IIRC there were still complaints about flows being OP early game?

AF wrote:That's because at the moment my points are based in logic, whereas your are based on your personal preferences. Your not really discussing or agreeing with my points either, your just dismissing them using your personal browsing habits as justification =(

I was about to say that this was quite possibly the most condescending thing I've ever seen posted in the Spring forums, but I wouldn't want to insult Sleksa's acheivements in the art.

I agree a full .com domain is a mighty trump card ^_^

I was about to say that this was quite possibly the most condescending thing I've ever seen posted in the Spring forums, but I wouldn't want to insult Sleksa's acheivements in the art.

I should think carefully before saying something like that, its not very nice and its very negative, and who knows, sleksa may get so stressed out he explodes, what would we do then? Perhaps its time for a little Pxtl positive vibe =)

Correcting some issues here:

• The new wiki AF speaks about would live at same URL as current Spring wiki, so the point about 404 is moot.
• If there would be a problematic 404 anyway, it can possibly be arranged to automatically redirect people to the new URL.
• I've yet to see some (group of) people remaking the wiki from scratch.
• I won't delete the current wiki (from the current address) until at least a very significant portion of the information of the current wiki is ported over.

---

I don't think it matters that a Spring wiki URL is harder to remember then a kernel panic subdomain, what matters in the end is whether google find it and it does. Besides that, all browsers have a favorites function and remember past addresses in the history so you usually don't have to remember an URL at all.

The point about stumbling upon the wiki also isn't really valid, no one stumbles upon kernelpanic.darkstars.co.uk by accident either... When browsing web you only "stumble upon" sites/pages because you see them being linked from other pages, in this case the actual link address doesn't matter that much.

KDR_11k wrote:

Google_Frog wrote:Why does the obelisk cost so much compared to everything else that can be placed on a vent? It would be a reasonable counter to pointers if it had less bt. System is very good against Hacker because of pointers.

A link to all the maps would be very useful for a kp web page.

It simply has a long BT because it can fire immediately after being built (and then after 40 seconds again IIRC), the other two superweapons have to charge for 90 seconds first (though it counts from the beginnning of the construction). Maybe the limited range is enough balancing so the BT doesn't need to be that long. Anyone else got input?

I don't think the BT needs to be longer than other buildings. Hacker has trouble against system and net shouldn't have idle packets outside the buffer. The limited range should stop it from being spammable on large maps.

zwzsg wrote:I also count on Spring's admins to be competent enough to not make all url go 404 after the rebuilding

I knew it!

Zwzsg, tell me when you have a site.

I haven't played recently, so I won't give input on balance for the time being. I believe, last time I played, that highly microed Bit could take down a Flow, but I had trouble handling them without a Byte.

[url]http://kdr_11k.from-hell.net/Kernel%20Panic%20net%20NRC9.sd7[/url]

KP.net NRC9
- Reduced Flow speed of movement (2.4 -> 1) but added a bonus for every geo its owner holds (+1). This should prevent early Flows from being that powerful on MM without making them too slow to use on larger maps.

Who said flow rush rocks? A byte or dos easily counters it.

The resource bar removal widget doesn't work unless the widget is removed then re-activated.

Hm, are you using some kind of alternative resource bar?

I'm using the default resource bar. The widget is yellow in the widget menu. If I turn it off then on the resource bar disappears. If I re-enable it the resource bar doesn't come back and the widget is still yellow.

Can you also a widget to remove the IceUI resource bar as well?