Spring RTS Engine

Samsons are meant to be cheap lvl1 early mobile anti-air, designed to take out - as you said - scouts and fighters. However, they are also capable of firing on ground targets, specifically fast scouts/raiders that you are likely to encounter when expanding early on. They are multi-role units; they do not excel at their roles, but they can perform them.

As for Hawks, well, they're aerial interceptors, specifically meant to intercept and destroy bombers before they reach your front line. This means that they are powerful, very fast dogfighters able to reach any trouble spot very rapidly to take out opposing airforces.

At least, that's how I see these units.

Samsons also have great line of site and can take out LLTs from outside their range.

I've used Samsons like Rockos, to execute Commanders.

I can confirm your problems with the EMP launcher. Those things need to be fixed.

Samsons, what exactly is the role of this unit? it's too weak against both ground and air.

It takes 3 of them to kill a brawler 1v1. By comparison, it takes 3 AAkbots and 4 defender towers. They are more effective against lvl1 air though, able to take out everything except bombers on the first pass.

On top of its AA capabilities, it is one of the most versatile units in the game, one of few who can hit both ground and air targets. They can comfortably outrange an LLT and even a HLT (But this is more difficult and can require some micro). Thus, they are useful as artillery, though you might need to spot for them (They dont hit radar blobs very well).

They also shoot low trajectory and their missiles track, unlike the Wolverine/Shellshocker. This means they are better as fire support against moving targets, and the only option in lvl 1 artil on low gravity maps. Though not very fast, a fighting retreat of Samson/Slashers can be effective (Especially vs kbots or slow moving enemies). They also have twice the hitpoints of the Wolverine/Shellshocker.

Why does the hawk do UBER damage against bombers? 2 of my liches (okay, I admit I made them for fun Razz) got wtfowned by 3 hawks - and they didn't even engage me from afar >_>.

Bombers need support. I suggest EMP bombers. In one game, a guy with 6-8 EMP bombers and a single liche would come in, stun everything in the vicinity, hit it with his liche, and then run away, repeat. This requires good scouting and quite a bit of micro but its highly effective. And yes, stun bombers can even stun hawks in a pinch (Though ideally, you should rely on your own hawks).

Is there a modweb somewhere of BA v4.5? If not any1 care to update the old ones?

Yes.

http://modinfo.unknown-files.net/modit/ ... p?MOD=ba45

TradeMark wrote:Yes.

http://modinfo.unknown-files.net/modit/ ... p?MOD=ba45

Cheers!

EDIT: very nice indeed; very detailed

EDIT 2: Why on earth is the arm stilleto's unitname: corgripn? :p

While were on the topic of missiles, could you please make them only shoot 1 at a time like the nuclear missile does (i.e. when you tell to to attack an enemy unit, the nuclear missile only shoots 1, while all the others shoot off as many as they have in stock). This includes the emp missiles, the tactical nukes, and the anti-radar missiles.

I've never encountered that issue, but I will test it as soon as possible.

Ahh yes, they probably need commandfire=1? The Nuke has this, which means when ordered to attack something it will shoot once, then wait for more orders.

Without it, it would behave just like a regular weapon- shooting until the target is destroyed. This is a particular problem with the EMP launcher as it will never destroy its target (Unless the impulse damage gets it. ). It would also be a problem with the tacnuke too, especially if attacking ground.

i notice than lvl 2 core has a major advantage with amphibious units at tech 2. core has the poison arrow and the croc. arm only has the triton.
now i shall compare thier stats

unit name---|unit price(metal) | unit health | unit dps |unit range | unit speed
croc-----------|---450-------------|------2340--|----161----|-----440----|---2.3
poison arrow|---------988-------|----5700----|---200----|---575------|---1.55
triton----------|--------717--------|---3360-----|---116----|---480------|---2

as you can see, the triton, in comparison to the croc and the poison arrow is not that good. the triton and the croc tie with each other in 1v1, even though the croc costs 267 less metal.

for only 271 metal more than the triton, the poison arrow has a significant increase in both health and dps, while having a range that is 95 higher.

so in comparison to both, the triton , in truth, sucks.

also, core has the lvl 2 amphibious transport. it has excellent health, can carry multiple units, and makes a great meatshield.

so in conclusion, lvl 2 core amphib totally annihilates lvl 2 arm amphib. what i reccommend is making the triton much better, maybe by lowering the price and increasing rate of fire.


while being on the topic of amphibious units, it seems to me that the Croc medium amphibious tank is overpowered. it has a higher dps than the reaper, and is more cost efficient than most lvl 2 tanks in battle. for example, 2 crocs(900 metal) could easily kill a bulldog(844 metal), 3 crocs(1350 metal) could kill 2 reapers (1386 metal), and could also easily take down a goliath. the croc is also fast, has a high terrain tolerance, and can fire over other units, making it great for swarms.

btw, why is the code name for the triton armcroc and the codename for the croc coreseal? shouldnt it be armseal and corcroc?

Another note :

Samsons, what exactly is the role of this unit? it's too weak against both ground and air.

It only ticks non peeper/freedom fighter planes and doesn't even scratch the paint off brawlers in hueg liek xbox amounts >_> (amount of samsons that is).

Sampsons pwn. They're my favourite lvl 1 arm unit after the janus.

Samson/Slashers are support and Harassment units, NOT MAIN ASSAULT UNITS ON THEIR OWN, use them as such and you won't be dissappointed.

I wouldn't touch the triton's stats tbh, it's already very close to a bulldog and it certainly shouldn't outclass it on land. The crock could easily lose 300 hp and it should be fine.

the main problem with the triton is its low dps. the bulldog has a good amount more health and almost twice the dps compared to the triton, and the bulldog costs only 127 more metal.

the triton isnt even close to comparing to the bulldog, and it would have to be improved alot to be of any use.

ok, i havn't played spring in a while, im still quite experienced, but have only played about 10ish hours of BA before my PC exploded (so disregard my worthless opinion if you want). However...the weasel/its equivilents..

The only time i've really seen it used is to rush at the start ( llt blows it away pretty easily), but on an open map its pretty easy to get a weasel around the base somehow (its usually quite easy to guess where the enemy base is likely to be and where its weakspots will be at the start) and take out a few mexes/maybe a solar or two, because the weasel can normally get to the enemy base before they have built units/llts to guard their base/expansion/raid the other team.


Now i dont really have a problem with raiding at the start, but i do have a few gripes with this:

1. noobs who play the game - a new player to the game can quite easily have his econ/base destroyed within a few minutes of the game starting - why should a scouting unit be capable of this?

2. it means that i prettymuch MUST have a line of llts covering a front too early in the game (imo) to stop weasels getting into some hole in my front and killing half my mexes ( im not a fan of porcing/discouraging expansion that early )-
ok, you shouldn't have holes in your defence, but on an open map, it really does make it a bitch to expand and cover your base, because at least with other (slower) units you have a pretty good warning through radar blips and can send your units to intercept pretty easily.

3. its just annoying having to micro around some units far too much to catch the thing and protect your mexes/solars once you see its gotten through

EDIT: ok i just read over my post and i don't like how it sounds, it was temping to post going over how stupid each of my own points were....but i cba to change it and after typing so much i think it would be an even bigger waste of my time if i deleted it...lol

That's the major use of jeffies/weasels/fleas. Even experienced players can lose a lot of their stuff to them if they are too cocky (I won't name names but someone lost all of their mex on Brazilian to a couple of well microed fleas today, and I was playing on the laptop too ). The other use is for providing LOS and keeping track of enemy troop movements/con unit position. I think they are well balanced as is. The key to not losing mex to them is to think about the layout of your base, and put llts (or offensive units) where your commander won't be. IMO if you can't defend against a jeffy/weasel/flea rush you deserve to lose.

BoredJoe wrote:

The answer to everything is play a different map. Ones like Comet are designed so that it's hard to defend your base, whereas Altored Divide is pretty easy as long as you start near the entrances and quickly build an LLT.

On Comet I can take early mexes away from Cabbage and RedDragon with single scouts. On Altored Divide, I would be hard pressed to take them away from Mr. McZeroHour with a dozen scouts.

So, I think their roles are affected by the map you play, as above, and my opinion is that there aren't any issues with them.

but playing on altored and chokepoint maps is really slow, porcy, boring and requires no skill. CometC ftw. to defend against weasels, just start your Build order with 2-3 Aks (at what, 35M each)moved around the areas of your base not covered by commanders.
my biggest Gripe with BA is still how easy it is to porc. almsot every player seems to make more LLTs than units, I lost my first game for playing to agressively; 4v4 on dry deltaseige along the bottom, I almost conquered the whole bottom of the map (on my first BA game lol) because the two guys opposing me just porced and I only made 2 llts. then their whole team gang ganked me, and my team hadnt got more than about 10 mobile units to help me with because they were so busy porcin it up. atm the LLT is too cheap in my oppinion, players often make a long line of them right infront of their base "2 stop raders lolol"
just an oppinion :)