Spring RTS Engine

I'm sure nukes have a terrible dps as well, hardly a measure of quality.
however since the merls and diplomats lost a lot of hp in BA it might be a good idea to look at this old aa change:

Merl, Diplomat HP increased 500 (~2500->3000), rocket AoE decreased
to 64/72 respectively (160), rocket damage increased to 1000/1300
respectively (800/900), range increased to 1215/1240 respectively
(1150)

and give back some of the aoe. maybe give the arm one a bit more than core to even it out a wee bit.

ginekolog wrote:

Cabbage wrote:i like merls /diplomats, they do a pretty huge amount of damage to a specific target :O

o RLYYYYYYYY???

diplo crapor:
range=1240;
reloadtime=20;
areaofeffect=72;
default=1300;


they do whooping (tum tum tum badum) 60 DPS. WOW. Tremor does 737,5 with 160 aoe... now u do your math - but dont overheat.

tbh even if diplo would deal 10x more damage (13000) i would still pick tremor because of its general hawoc ability.

I agree, it's especially cool because as we all know every tremor shot hits an enemy target so you actually do get 737.5 dps.

I don't think pillagers/diplomats/tremor needs adjusting. They all have a place, and it is largely up the player to decide how/where to use them.

Sure, tremos have a huge DPS, but they take a lot longer to build and where each shot lands is quite random, trying to take out specific hard defenses with a tremor is not as easy as building three diplomats and firing a volly rockets. The tremor does have a good psycological impact and can certainly weaken defenses.

Anyway, to reiterate, I don't think these units need changing just because the numbers don't look right, in-game they all have a place as is.

I just figure with snipers becoming a bit harder next version and lugers and merls just being plain worse than their carbon copy unit, arm could use a little arty love.

I'm all for differences between sides but pillagers/lugers and diplomats/merls are sooo alike that it doesn't make any sense for the arm ones to be worse while they have the same basic cost and jobs.

I too am concerned about the artillery capabilities of Arm, but on the other hand, we do not yet know how the new Sniper will measure up. For now, I'm reserving judgement.

my suggestions:

give luger emp shells: 256 aoe but not too good dps. That way would be unique and usefull.

increase merl/diplo dps a bit or redice cost or make tracking

pilager could get huge aoe... like 400 but minimal dps so i would mostly harm pewes or mines but cause general hawoc and some damage in time.


And try to keep em balanced ofc

jackalope wrote: I agree, it's especially cool because as we all know every tremor shot hits an enemy target so you actually do get 737.5 dps.

lol

Currently the sniper has a shorter reload time than a Diplomat, higher damage per shot, can cloak, costs less and doesn't have it's projectile spend about 10 seconds+ in the air. It can also climb over hills.

This isn't a great basis for comparison as a sniper is widely considered overpowered, but I do think they need a little boost. Although they have their uses, most of the time I'd prefer the equivalent cost in arty or tremors.

actually i'm not that good ignore this post

Tombom is actually right on target with the artillery.

There needs to be a lot more difference between the artillery units, and not just on a Team vs Team balance standing.

Each LVL-2 Artillery unit is fairly good at 1 specific thing, but none of them are really any better than another in technical terms(with exception to the Tremor).

As is, its kinda hard to justify building one over the other.

Take this as example.

Luger/Pillager are decent arty units for support and speed to keep up with tanks, but are weak, can't shoot at targets while they're in retreat, and don't really have the range advantage to kill targets on Hilltops.

MERL/Diplomat are great long range Anti-Porc defence killers, are armored to survive with a mixed group, can fire on the move and in reatreat, and have the range to deal with Targets on hilltops, but they're very slow, can't hit moving targets, and are not good at dealing with anything besides Fixed ground targets.

Tremor is a jack of all trades, they can hit moving targets, fire on the move and in retreat if Micro'd properly, are well armored, and have the range and firepower to Take down Hilltop targets and outrange almost all other forms of artillery, and most high level defences, the only fall back is thier build costs and their slow speed.

The idea with making the ARM Luger as an EMP Atrillery unit would be something to think about, but it would need to be very carefully balenced in terms of freezetime and AOE.

Perhaps its Time for ARM to get a new Artillery unit instead of changing is existing ones, something along the lines of a Tremor Counter weapon or Equivalent.

or maybe rather than spamming in yet more un-needed units, just fix the balance on the ones present. luger and pillager are suppost to be all purpose, efficent artillery, used in lines to destroy units and defences. the tremor should be shorter range artillery, not long range. range order should go merl-->luger-->tremor. DPS should go Tremor-->luger-->merl.
atm its all borked.

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:or maybe rather than spamming in yet more un-needed units, just fix the balance on the ones present. luger and pillager are suppost to be all purpose, efficent artillery, used in lines to destroy units and defences. the tremor should be shorter range artillery, not long range. range order should go merl-->luger-->tremor. DPS should go Tremor-->luger-->merl.
atm its all borked.

I would think the Tremor is the other way around. It's low accuracy for base-bombardment... which would need to be longer-ranged... the problem is how to avoid it being redundant with the Core L3 arty kbot.

I personally like Caydr's approach. The L2 arty is standard, cheap arty. The L2 Missile arty is heavily armoured and massive, so it can take fire, plus it can shoot through shields - it's for fighting defended locations. The Tremor is raw firepower for price - it's low accuracy, low speed, slow-projectiles. So in that case, all ranges are roughly the same.

Personally, I'd like to see stun arty (other than the painfully expensive Arm L3 mobile neutron).

Just out interest, does BA *need* 20 movement classes? I'm getting away with 2 for Epic Legions (at the moment)

Ya ive been wondering that too... i think it should be reduced to 10 or so...

http://modinfo.unknown-files.net/modit/ ... o&MOD=ba45

I dunno, they're all different, I wouldn't remove variety in units just to trim some code.

Machiosabre wrote:I dunno, they're all different, I wouldn't remove variety in units just to trim some code.

Its nots just for trimming code >__< it makes the path calculation 2 times faster if you remove half of the movement classes.

Gte a faster processor!

can you make snipers listen to my micro?

i don't care if they are nerfed if they would just do what the fuck i tell them! i hate microing the damn things. if i set it to attack something, it rarely attacks it, it just shoots at whatever the hell it wants while walking towards what i've set it to attack to. if i put it on hold fire to prevent that bullshit, it walks towards the chosen unit, but shoots it maybe 25% of the time. i've seen the damn things spinning their gun around like idiots, and no matter how much profanity i blurt at the screen, they don't stop being enormous idiots! also, they walk much, much closer to a chosen target than the range of fire is.

if they get nerfed and still have so many bugs involving micromanagement they might fade in to obscurity.

hunterw wrote:can you make snipers listen to my micro?

i don't care if they are nerfed if they would just do what the fuck i tell them! i hate microing the damn things. if i set it to attack something, it rarely attacks it, it just shoots at whatever the hell it wants while walking towards what i've set it to attack to. if i put it on hold fire to prevent that bullshit, it walks towards the chosen unit, but shoots it maybe 25% of the time. i've seen the damn things spinning their gun around like idiots, and no matter how much profanity i blurt at the screen, they don't stop being enormous idiots! also, they walk much, much closer to a chosen target than the range of fire is.

if they get nerfed and still have so many bugs involving micromanagement they might fade in to obscurity.

Sounds like a Spring bug.

NOiZE wrote:
Sounds like a Spring bug.

Bah, that's your excuse for eveeeeeeeeeeeerything...


"Hey, that report was due monday!
Sorry, it was a spring bug"

"Im sorry honey, it must have been a spring bug."

>.>

lulz @ Kix.

Anyway, been using ARM EMP missiles lately - they seem to have a tiny weeny problem :

They tend to miss their target.

They tend to fall short of the distance required - the missile hits empty ground / water instead >__>.

Also, when I once used it on a group of zeus + snipers Uh... it made teh zeuses fly, fly I say!

Another note :

Samsons, what exactly is the role of this unit? it's too weak against both ground and air.

It only ticks non peeper/freedom fighter planes and doesn't even scratch the paint off brawlers in hueg liek xbox amounts >_> (amount of samsons that is).

Why does the hawk do UBER damage against bombers? 2 of my liches (okay, I admit I made them for fun ) got wtfowned by 3 hawks - and they didn't even engage me from afar >_>.