Spring RTS Engine

Min3mat wrote:

I have an idea. Let us get everybody together for a ten-player FFA of Final Frontier on a large map, and see what happens. Of course, this means Islington, Min3Mat, Smoth, Fang... all the people who have strong opinions either way.

roflmao yeah lets play a 10 way FFA that would be FUN and INTERESTING and a LEARNING EXPERIENCE.
[/sarcasm]

A ten player free for all is better than nothing which is the alternative. You can't press the points you're trying to make with words, isn't that clear? You need to demonstrate it in game, and the bigger and earlier the game, the faster we can make headway.

Oh, and 4v4/5v5 games are not without a skill requirement. Each player detracts from the economic pool of metal spots and thus teamwork becomes an additional requirement on top of individual skill.

yeah sure. and how much have you played FF? and waht are the odds you get 10 good players in AA or XTA let alone in FF. In FF theres what me (ROFLMAO if you call that skilled) isly and kovin (very good players) opty (middling at best) Pussycat (worse than opty) and a crapload of random noobs.
2v2 is the only way to go in FF, 3v3 if you get the players and if you had a map suitable. 4v4 and above is just shite.
but i only play FF every once in a blue moon for fun, playing this mod with seriousness would just be the lol.

ffs. read. my. fucking. post.
i don't know why i bother tbh.

fighters. no i was talking about the fucking gunships. you give them a attack order and watch them. its ridicolous.
the fighters can be fixed. you freaking retard, Caydr did this in AA a few vsns ago. All i want is improved maneveurability.
After 3 or more explanations i will try another why T3 economy is stupid
IT. MAKES. THE. GAME. EVEN. LESS. DYNAMIC.
MM on MMAI + solars/minifusions are SOOOO less efficient than mexes and FAR easier to raid.
So by removing the T3 economy you encourage a greater amount of raiding on the asteroids, a more FLUID and DYNAMIC game which will SEEM to be FASTER because you are fighting on all fronts, fighting for those precious asteriods (on a well designed map)
About the ODS, READ. MY. POST. I said on SMALL maps. I said that on LARGE MAPS this is NOT so much of a problem. READ. READ. READ. >.<
YES. T2 IONS SOLVE EVERY PROBLEM. THAT IS A PROBLEM. They are fairly cheap T2 defenses with a decent amount of range and are useful vs T2 and T3 units as well as ODS. This is dumb, all you need is these and antifighter to have a versatile, concentrated and cost effective defense!
Reclaiming should not counter ODS. But as i said they are FINE on LARGER MAPS. The com shouldn't counter them either but you just wont hear freaking sense.
A com tower should only counter ODS if its backed with ions. Again its freaking stupid and encourages a fairly porcey T1 battle, Com towers and scattered antifighter makes it near impossible to attack well. Very 'strategic' and all that crap but neither FUN FLUID nor DYNAMIC.
Metallions are also damn good antifighter whereas COREs counterpart can have extreme problems with hitting.
Raiding is near impossible. this is neither FUN FLUID nor DYNAMIC
Removing T3 economy also means more time will be spent at T1 and T2 and encourage diversity, using ODS fighters and Corvettes/Frigates
Why the hell are T2 EMP corvettes so fast, ODS are slow so they need not be so fast, it makes them too useful to attack and defend IMO, you should see the ODS a mile off with the radar improvements i suggested (if you even bothered reading them) and build corvettes, which are slower, but still intercept them in plenty of time. As a side note this does work with certain units, for example the Warlock is quite nice IMO.

To the lvl 3 fusion - it is less effective than solars and pokets, so no one really needs them. Its just an alternative for lategame -i dont see why this is wrong.

remove the goddamn thing then it does your mod no favours.

believe me or not, but i really thought about all of these ideas in detail. You have to show me most of these problems ig (like odss too good), else i dont believe you because i "think" that i can counter your *imba* tactic.

you crack me up ROFLMAO

they arent that useless. They are called scouts - everyone knows what a scout is. You can use probes for sure, but with a scout, you can attack single constructors far away from their mainbase. You are right that they arent very usefull, but shall i make a scout another warunit? It is cheap, so you can build hordes of them and irritate your enemy on radar Laughing

Idiot, have you ever played this mod? could have sworn you made the damn thing.
They are small fast and cheap. Scouts are cheaper and better at all roles. Including scouting and misleading information.
Try attacking a single lone con with one lol they are innacurate and will take forever to kill a con, let alone a mex. lolmao. I'd rather use metallions as they will actually hit and do damage, then again i'd normally just use a con as well as a metallion or two as i can expand and reclaim with it. Which is crap.
Without T3 economy the late game would be slowER in COMING as you'd have more interesting T1/2 battles and MC would be fought over far more readily. The big ships would only start coming out at the end. AS IT SHOULD BE, small numbers of them to counter T2 units or to raid his base or...WHATEVER.
Also the com towers suck at keeping coms away. you can simply reclaim them lolmao, and if you com is nearby then their com can dance about eating up your expansion, its stupid weird and non-intuitive.

min3 you really make me tired -.-
i discussed that in detail a lot of times now and i still dont see that your changes improve it.
You can discuss for agres, but its not true at all.
Just make me a changed FF version with your changes, upload it and we will see.
All you are saying is theory and i dont agree with you here. So make it practice and show me. I dont want to because i think its wasted time.
You think your version will be more dynamic, i say no it wont.
You say ions are uber, i say no.
come down from your throne min3. You arent god who knows all. You sound like all you say is the pure thruth and all who have a different oppinion are idiots.
I tell you show me and other persons some of your imba tactics ig and you dont want to. I still dont see why min3 you are discussing here. You are playing ff rarely, so dont waste your time here - go and play ee or whatever you want.
neddiedrow, you see why i dont wanna discuss here in forum? For me the best and only way to check all points is ig and thats what i m doing - not here.

On the basis that neither side are actually listening to each other, I say drop the topic and let OP's FF die...

If you want to rebalance / reconvert FF to Spring, we talk about it here. That's what this thread is for. Talking about any reconversion. It's not for a big flamewar over OP's version

*resists urges to add to flames with his own opinion*

*realizes he has just added to flames*

*curses vehnemently*

See what you've done OP? You've turned me into a hypocrite. Congratulations

(I'm kidding with the hypocrasy thing.)

I was one long before you came along!

*flees for making bad jokes*

Optimus Prime wrote:i dont use a dictionary, in german, it would be correct.
We can discuss this in german too, than i would be the one who would laugh @Forboding Angel
If this discussion would have a good point at all, i would see that it is worth to make good sentences and i would use a dictionary, but for just a conversation to show other who is the most rude person, i m too lazzy to look into a dictionary - sorry.

YOu can go ahead and laugh if you like, but keep in mind that you're the one that keeps pwning himself, publicly even.

*sighs*

neddiedrow wrote:A ten player free for all is better than nothing which is the alternative. You can't press the points you're trying to make with words, isn't that clear? You need to demonstrate it in game, and the bigger and earlier the game, the faster we can make headway.

The problem is that Optimus thinks that a game design that requires 15-20 minutes of solid economy building and nanostall before you get any really interesting combat is perfectly acceptable.

The rest of us don't.

and you dont get, that you dont need so long for a good eco and war. I will not discuss this more in detail because you wont believe me anyway. You dont wanna test it ig, so thats not my problem..

How do you think I came to this opinion? By waving magic wands? No, it was by trying the mod in-game on "FF maps".

Of course you don't need that long for good eco-building and combat. Other mods handle it just fine. AA, for example. XTA. Gundam Annihilation. EE.

They get played.

FF doesn't.

Why? Because people don't like FF's gameplay.

End of story.

see opty? see when perfectly good players come in to the flamewar that they DON'T leap to help you? see how a few are even backing me up?
Me and Day are going to go and try to rebalance FF with our level 1 modder skills. I mean logically almost anything we do is a improvement X)

finally you are doing something productive!
I cant wait to test your "improved" work. We will see what people will say after testing both versions a few times.
One hint: write all changes you make in detail with numbers and so on. Also dont change too much balancing, else you have to work for months untill you will get a really good balanced version.

yeah. thats what we are aiming at. a playable balanced FF. so you can take your 'dont spend to long' and apply it to that FPS game you are making (@.@)
and ppl who play both vsns? i couldn't give to shits about the noobs, if isly/kovin like it as well as me and day its worthy aplenty IMO

Look at it this way:

AA gets played by nearly everyone on the lobby. You can garuantee that every Spring player has played at least one game of AA. Thus AA is popular. It popular because it is fun to play. It is fun to play because it is balanced.

FF gets played by about 10 people (and you've said this yourself). Thus FF is not that popular. It is not that popular because for about 95% of the Spring player base don't find it fun to play. It is not fun to play because it is unbalanced

If can't stop the flames, you may as well join them. Christ, I sound like a right condescending shit don't I?

Ok, this is getting ludicrous... as I have said before he does listen to people and any feedback he regards as noobs and invalid. It is like arguing with a street sign except I can hit the street sign with a beer bottle.





That graph btw... completely invalid, I see no numbers for reference and no idea for time. I am not going to bother any further OP will ignore us and he will continue to make this mod crap.

FISSION MAILED!

Point taken!

When will you learn?
THE MOD MAKER IS ALWAYS RIGHT. ITS HIS MOD, NOT YOURS.

Now stop whinging. You don't like FF? Don't play it. Easy. Problem solved.

he DID NOT MAKE THIS MOD... HE TWEAKED A FEW STATS YOU FAIL!

FAIL!!

Guessmyname wrote: FF gets played by about 10 people (and you've said this yourself). Thus FF is not that popular. It is not that popular because for about 95% of the Spring player base don't find it fun to play. It is not fun to play because it is unbalanced

Thats not entirly true, there are other balanced mods, which aren't being played much as well, like nanoblobs/TAWD/Gundam/Maybe even more i don't know.

So it's not only about balance, it's also about popularity. Somehow Caydr has brainwashed the most of us :-S

actually I am an avid supporter of SWTA also, that mod has good balance +1 to starwars.