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Posted: 10 Mar 2006, 18:30
by BigSteve
Lol sinbad.... I meant = win hehe

Posted: 10 Mar 2006, 23:44
by SwiftSpear
Kixxe wrote:NEVER GO FOR THE KILL!



Pepole, including me ofen think that your enemy is crippeled beyond repair because you kill lots of his infrasturucture or he lost a lot of land. THIS IS NOT THE CASE!

Bye moving back, the enemy now has to defend less area while having a medium enconomy can tech boom extremly fast since he has no way off attacking! Don't stop producing defences and upgrading to mohomexxes to make more attack units... just contiune sending small medium attacks as you did before, with the normal strategical concept!(oh, if i kill that flakker, i can go in with bombers and finally kill those fusions)

And don't think for a second that your gonna win untill your enemy is on with LLT vs your goliaths and Bomber army.
I have to disagree in part. Going for the kill is important, if you can do fatal damage you've sealed the game up and the acctual death blow will be no problem. It's a game of stabbing your enemies heart out as quickly and effectively as you can. Granted, keep in mind that he might bleed for a few minutes before hes done, so don't let up, but you still want to punch those nails into his coffin before he can drop that nuke into the back of your base or put a brawlie swarm somewhere where you didn't expect it.

Don't try to mop up with forces that you don't have, but at the same time there's more advantages to losing a massive bulldog rush in the process of killing 2-3 fusions and an L2 aircraft plant then there is in sitting them around massing more when your enemies econonmy and massing is slowly starting to match yours.

Also, if you open a door, keep it open. It doesn't take long to build a few HLT, and once they are built they can stop ALOT of units. However, those HLT can't be built if even 1 peewee is standing on the spot where it's needed. A single unit can be worth alot more then it's health and metal cost if it's in the right place at the right time. Know when to set your factories move order to the middle of your opponents base and when to mass up outside.

Posted: 10 Mar 2006, 23:52
by Kixxe
Offcourse, but most pepole can't learn to differ whats a fatal blow and whats a mild wound that can be laserated. Don't rush blindly in with attacks just because the wind blows your way. Don't stop doing everything else just to push more money into the tank maker.

I've lost alot just because i thougt i was gonna win, for example when killing the middle in Small divide and start massing level 1 to try to finish him...

Edit: *updated my tip*

:P

Posted: 12 Mar 2006, 00:10
by gavan
the basics

The art of micromanagement.

Whoever builds the heaviest guns with the least amount of clicks, wins.
Well, that's easilly said.. But it's often hard to keep track of your production crews during battle. That leads to idle factories and constr bots.

That's why i have production 'crews' and 'leaders' working on different parts of economy, factory & defense production, and unit production.

In the very early game, the commander builds most of my economy (mexes and solars), but this soon gets taken over by construction bot teams. The commander then becomes a speedworker slave. It can't build much, but does so in a hurry ;)

Workers on the constr teams shift quite often, when i want to speed up something i pull workers off one job and put 'm on the urgent job.
And the 'leader' is used to build several related types of units after eachother, properly placed. It sometimes gets CTRL-#ed, for easy access using #. (# = number)

My strategy almost forces me to build both vehicles and kbots and planes.
Vehicles for defense and offense, Kbots for construction and battle support, planes mostly for recon and/or brawlering/bombing.
Obviously, on a water map subs and ships are the important units, instead of vehicles.

It's possible to build the first part of the economy with only a vehicle / kbot factory, but i find that involves more brainactivity, and quite often it means i cannot put out enough units after 5 to 10 minutes into the game.

Since tanks fire heavier shots than kbots, i put out the heaviest L1 tank as mobile base-defense. Rushers usually respect that, and opt to invest in a L2 economy straight away instead of L1 rushing to death.

The k-bots are the nimblest builders, and my strategy requires a lot of shifting of construction kbots.
Construction vehicles may be faster, but they are much more likely to stall production by stopping in the wrong place.. Especially in narrow workplaces they are a disaster.

So the first kbot factory outputs 10 constr kbots, and has an pre-set order of 'move south, then east/west, then a bit north, and guard your parent factory'.

The first tank and kbot take a while to produce, but the 2nd is faster. The 5th is produced real fast, coz there are now 4 workers guarding/assisting the factory.
So the 2nd constr kbot can be put on another task, like building more mexes. The 3rd gets put on adv-solar construction, and the 4th guards the 2nd.
Or, you guard the vehicle factory with the 4th, increasing it's production (and economic drain).

The vehicle factory is managed a bit more closely, it's start buildqueue (on metalheck) is usually something like 1 leveler, 1 constr bot, 2 levelers, 1 constr bot, 3 levelers, 1 constr bot, 300 levelers.

You can add a 100 units to a factory's queue by left-clicking it's buildpicture while you hold CTRL + shift.

Why do i get 3 veh constr bots when i'm already making 10 constr kbots? Because someone might blow up my vehicle factory just at the moment i want to make an L2 vehicle factory. That can only be done by the constr vehicle.

Ofcourse, you might want more sophisticated buildqueues, but i urge you to keep it simple. Brain- and click-time is best spent on recon and attack, not construction.


But anyways, now you know you have 2 teams, one for energy one for metal, who's leading those teams, and their production plan.
You can shift the workers from one to another group, thereby changing priorities of your army.

And as soon as my economy has some steam, the same trick is pulled for aircraft. Factory is built, 2-5 constr planes put in the queue, followed by 20 fighters. Guard-order the factory to guard itself, and walk away. The first plane takes a while, but 2 const planes can help put up your fighter aircraft quickly.
Those fighters are excellent mobile anti-air and/or recon units. If your opponent is foolish enough to use slow constr planes for his base production, then your fighters can hurt those quickly and badly.
Once enough LLTs are up in the opponent's base, planes are also about the only thing that can give you a complete view of his base.

At some point, most production teams get L2 leaders, the economy groups first.
The 'defense' L2 leader's first task is building radar and possibly anti-radar. The L2 radar jammer is comfortably large, and cheap.
However, some players attack soon after you start to jam radar.

L2 production teams can get quite large, and it's then usefull to put the leader (alone) in a group. CTRL-[number] to put it in, hitting [number] twice will center the view on whereever your leader is at that time.

Since my left hand is around AWSD on the keyboard, i use control groups 1-4 for battles, 5-7 for construction and 8-0 for LRPCs groups.

During the buildup of my adv L1 / early L2 stage, some constr kbots are on factory-assist duty. But nano-towers out-build anything, so they are used for factory assist, a.s.a.p.

In AA 1.44 i use about 6-8 nanotowers for a L2 vehicle plant, and as many as 20-30 for a mech (L3 kbot) factory.

When nano-towers die, they blow up, taking out their neighbors. So in most cases, i build 'm in groups of 4-8. So when a bomber gets a lucky hit on one of 'm, the other groups survive.
Nano-towers take forever to build, so having 2/3 L1 kbots working on one is not a bad idea.
You can also order the first nano-tower on the blocks to assist the k-bot building the blocks, as soon as the outline of it's own construction is visible.

By putting your factories to one side of the n-tower block and some economy on the other side (facing away from your opponent), you can have the n-towers speed up economy production aswell, in a limited radius.
I've found that capability to be extremely helpfull towards winning, since it allows me to adapt more quickly than the other guy.
Just don't overdo it! On a map like metalheck, you'll still need approx 10 L1 constr units and 20-30 L2 constr units in case your nano towers get bombed or otherwise destroyed.

As you might have guessed, using blocks of n-towers to fuel production of your economy forces you to spread out your base, and diversify the sectors. That's good, because if part of your base is destroyed, none of the 'pillars' (metal, energy, factories) will be gone.
Spread out, diversified bases allow you to bounce back after an attack.

N-towers are kind of difficult to construct, and when the battle requires your attention, adding production power to a factory with n-towers can take too many clicks...
So instead, have 2 L2 kbot factories.
One L2 Kbot factory (plus n-towers) is used only for production of battle units, and the 2nd uses no assisting (guarding) nano-towers.
The 2nd is used to put out 5, 10, 15 or 20 farks / freakers (L2 speed builders). That factory gets an order to move the units to the factory that needs a speed increase, and have 'm guard it.. That means you order the factory to do what you want the produced units to do. Factories don't walk :D
This way, the production on the 'war factory' is increased gradually to as high as you need it, without the clicking of building nano-towers, waiting for it to complete, and then having the n-towers assist the factory. You can focus on the battle instead.
And yes, having 2 constr bots / n-towers guard the production of the farks/freakers will result in quicker increases.

If i'm allowed the time by my opponent, i build other crucial structures (like a L2 vehicle factory with it's n-towers) also double..

Ofcourse, you're not going to use all your factories all the time..
But having them (with those n-tower blocks) means you can build units quickly when you want / need them.
My L2 aircraft factories has about 8-12 n-towers near it, but those are working on other stuff most of the time...

If the other guy nukes me, i build 2 more anti-nukes stocked with 100 antinukes, just in case he fires 50 nukes from 5 silos after eachother later in the game..

Now, i'd like to share some battle tactics aswell.
The relation between recon and base design/defense i'll get to in another post..

Some proven tactics
These tactics relate to the balance of absolute annihilation, version 1.44

Suppose you can build 5 tanks quickly.. Then use 'm, instead of building 20 :)
Drive 2 or 3 heavy tanks as panic-inducing reconaissance into your enemy's base, while your factory produces 10 more.
It really pays to micromanage those tanks.
1) you can have 'm shoot the weak / important stuff first. why take out those frontrow HLTs and guardians if you can drive by them and take out his juicy mexes and geothermal (which he put next to his fusion, for fun's sake)
2) you'll see what other structures/units your opponent has, or is working on.
3) you'll see how your opponent manages his troops.

Driveby shooting

Most base defenses get thicker as you deeper into the base. So instead of driving your tanks straight into it, drive heavy tanks along the edge back and forth. That way you eat up the defense, and if he tries to repair it you can attack the construction bots, which represent a lot of micromanagement time for your opponent.

Ofcourse, if there are a bunch of annihilators or doomsdays (longrange heavy lasers), this strategy is foolish. then retreat your tanks, and move on to:

Artillery

Long-range mobile artillery can actually work...

If you're playing AA Core, have a look at Tremors (from L2 vehicle plant). In groups of 3-4, they are devastating.
So much so, that if you point such a group at someone's base, they will do anything to get rid of them. They'll send in their brawlers if they have 'm, or entire tank force, or whatever.

Be ready for that reaction. Have your tremors behind plenty of firepower to deflect whatever he throws at you. Gollies and levelers work best, i've found.

Usually i put the tremors into 2 control groups (select 2 tremors, hit CTRL+1 to put them into group '1', CTRL+2 for group 2, etc) possibly together with some anti-air units.
Then put your tanks into group 3.
Now you have a quick way to micromanage the tanks and the artillery.
Keep the tanks between your enemies approaching units and your artillery.
Use the artillery groups (1 and 2) to bomb different parts of his base.
If and when you win the tank battle, you can send some tanks into the base as eyes for the artillery. Better yet, have a group of L1 kbots standing ready at the flanks, to provide additional protection to the artillery or tanks, but also to invade the base and finish off what the artillery started.

Hidden sets of 10+ brawlers / L2 bombers can quickly end your artillery party, but your fighter aircraft might save it. And provide LOS for your artillery too. Send 1 or 2 fighters in, and force-fire the artillery on your selected target.

LRPCs

Long Range Plasma Cannons are usefull, but i find the vulcan simply takes too long to build and uses too much energy when firing.
Better to have 4-8 berthas in your camp, because that
1) shoots sooner
2) spreads out the risk of counter attack
3) allows you to select multiple targets at once
4) allows range control by building newer ones closer to the opponent.
5) grows with your economy, instead of raping your economy.

And since LRPCs blow up with a big bang, don't put anything you wanna keep directly next to it. Especially anti-air.

The same goes for all the heaviest units. It's often lots more usefull to build more of the heaviest L2 units than those ultra-expensive biggest units.
If you wanna have fun with those expensive toys, at least back them up properly :)

Posted: 12 Mar 2006, 02:32
by SwiftSpear
If you have 2 const constantly building mex, your comm trading off for energy building now and then and you rush moho as soon as possible your economy won't stall except for a fraction of a second in the moments before your L2 plant is up. The trick is to set overambitious forward lines so your rear mex aren't vulnerable to raiders.

Posted: 12 Mar 2006, 03:24
by Felix the Cat
I tend to disagree on the "driveby shooting" part. I have found that most players tend to have strong, linear defenses. The best way to defeat a strong, linear defense is to bypass it. This means that you use your strong units to break a hole in the defensive line and then rush your attack force through the hole into the enemy's base area.

Also, I disagree on the "use 5 tanks now vs. 20 tanks later". It depends on the circumstances. If your enemy is undefended, by all means, use your forces now. But if your enemy has strong defenses, you will want to assemble a force strong enough to break an opening in the defense and rush through to his economy. Also, because of wreckage and crowding, each successive attack on an area tends to have less momentum. Therefore, it would be to your advantage to use the element of tactical surprise and attack when you have a 20 tank force and your opponent doesn't expect it, or only expects 5 tanks, and make this your first and quickest attack.

Posted: 12 Mar 2006, 10:55
by SwiftSpear
The greater you mass your forces the more difficult a time your enemy will have defending against them. Your enemy has to build static defencive structures on all flanks if he wants to survive, where as your one massed force can attack anywhere you want it to, therefore you are outpacing your enemy on a liniar scale as he has to buy more and more expensive guns to cover more and more ground. You also have the advantage of holding all the cards with a massed force. Your enemy doesn't know if you will have spiders in your force, he doens't know if you will have air backup, he has to cover more bases then you do because there's more risk to trying to hold a line then there is to trying to break a line.

That being said, I mentioned elsewhere that once you have opened a hole make sure it doesn't close. 1 peewee can prevent a cont from building an HLT effortlessly, but if there are 2 HLT up they can decimate a force of 30 peewees. If you open a hole often times its better to desperatey rush units to keep the hole open rather then taking the time to rebuild another mass rush. A string of peewees 1 by 1 can do alot of damage if your opponent doesn't have the defence to kill then before they start shooting.

Posted: 12 Mar 2006, 16:02
by Andreask
SwiftSpear wrote:The greater you mass your forces the more difficult a time your enemy will have defending against them. Your enemy has to build static defencive structures on all flanks if he wants to survive, where as your one massed force can attack anywhere you want it to, therefore you are outpacing your enemy on a liniar scale as he has to buy more and more expensive guns to cover more and more ground.
Only if the map is very open and he really has more than one flank to cover. And only if the attacking force really is very mobile, else it will get scouted before it can surprise attack.
You also have the advantage of holding all the cards with a massed force. Your enemy doesn't know if you will have spiders in your force, he doens't know if you will have air backup, he has to cover more bases then you do because there's more risk to trying to hold a line then there is to trying to break a line.


Your enemy might as well know what your force is comprised of, if he has any brains, becuase any stealth-unit and radar plane will tell him.
Also, there is not more risk in trying to hold than in trying to break, as the one that breaks is prone to a counter attack if his fails, and then he wont have a line himself, if he only massed units.

That being said, I mentioned elsewhere that once you have opened a hole make sure it doesn't close. 1 peewee can prevent a cont from building an HLT effortlessly, but if there are 2 HLT up they can decimate a force of 30 peewees. If you open a hole often times its better to desperatey rush units to keep the hole open rather then taking the time to rebuild another mass rush. A string of peewees 1 by 1 can do alot of damage if your opponent doesn't have the defence to kill then before they start shooting.
Damn right.

Posted: 24 Mar 2006, 11:29
by gavan
Felix the Cat wrote:I tend to disagree on the "driveby shooting" part. I have found that most players tend to have strong, linear defenses. The best way to defeat a strong, linear defense is to bypass it. This means that you use your strong units to break a hole in the defensive line and then rush your attack force through the hole into the enemy's base area.
Strong linear defenses could be flanked, instead of approached headon with a force that takes much longer to build.
Also, I disagree on the "use 5 tanks now vs. 20 tanks later". It depends on the circumstances. If your enemy is undefended, by all means, use your forces now. But if your enemy has strong defenses, you will want to assemble a force strong enough to break an opening in the defense and rush through to his economy. Also, because of wreckage and crowding, each successive attack on an area tends to have less momentum. Therefore, it would be to your advantage to use the element of tactical surprise and attack when you have a 20 tank force and your opponent doesn't expect it, or only expects 5 tanks, and make this your first and quickest attack.
OK, that boils down to 'if your enemy is stronger, evade him'.
Maybe you're afraid that your base will get hammered by the opponent's mobile force, after he gets angry over your tank-attack.
Well, if that happens i can counteract it by
- sending (some) of my mobile guns forward (1)
- shifting construction-bot attention from economy building to unit-production
- (possibly) changing factory production orders to usefull units (against types of units from attacking force).
- changing the factory orders to guide new-built units to a safe staging-area in the direction of incoming troops OR my own vulnerabilities (esp if the opponent has scouted there).

So usually i don't have a problem with the opponent bouncing back.
In fact, usually the opponent loses his mobile force against my mobile base defense. Dynamic ambushing :)
For instance, draw the opponent force into range of your 2 doomsdays, or away from his anti-air so your brawlers can get to them.

Never draw a mobile force into range of mobile artillery; the opponent will outmaneuver you, get close to your artillery and have it all turn into a big friendly-fire mess for your other units that guard the artillery.

Obviously, for this to work you'll need enough economy to fuel an after-burner war-effort. It's always a balance so keep an eye on the metal/energy bars. On metal maps, it's quicker to build groups of L1 mexes than groups of L2 mexes..

Footnotes:
(0) So obviously, i porc at first. That allows me to build up an economy, to auto-heal (constr bot on patrol through mobile-defended territory), lots of usefull stuff.

By having fewer static defenses, but really heavy ones, i avoid 'driveby shootings' against my own base. Whatever driving is done, it'll be into one of my mobile ambushes ;)

(1) but if possible still in range of any static defenses that i've put up (like doomsdays/annis).
Those sumos/gollies sent forward become the first line of defense, usually creating stable LOS for my other defenses. Sprinkle the rest of the area with levelers, and i'm fine.

very mobile production

Posted: 24 Mar 2006, 15:27
by duncs
I'm sure loads of you know this, but I just discovered this the night before last:

core farks can build 'the can'.

it is Teh awesome. I made a death line of cans outside the enemy base with 15 farks and powninated him.


this thread is useful! thanks!

Re: very mobile production

Posted: 24 Mar 2006, 15:49
by Aun
duncs wrote:core farks
It's called the Freaker, as in the core lvl1 kbot fast attacker in XTA.

Re: very mobile production

Posted: 24 Mar 2006, 16:44
by FizWizz
Aun wrote:
duncs wrote:core farks
It's called the Freaker, as in the core lvl1 kbot fast attacker in XTA.
It'c called the Freaker, as in the core lvl2 nano-assist Kbot in AA

Re: very mobile production

Posted: 24 Mar 2006, 17:14
by Aun
FizWizz wrote:
Aun wrote:
duncs wrote:core farks
It's called the Freaker, as in the core lvl1 kbot fast attacker in XTA.
It'c called the Freaker, as in the core lvl2 nano-assist Kbot in AA
I assumed that the majority of people would have first seen the Freaker in XTA... Not as a combat builder in AA.

Posted: 24 Mar 2006, 17:22
by FizWizz
well, he was talking about the Freaker as a Sumo builder, so I had figured the AA description would be more appropriate

Posted: 24 Mar 2006, 17:30
by duncs
a 'the can' builder. sumos would be great though :)

Posted: 27 Apr 2006, 22:20
by Felix the Cat
In AA, the Dragon's Tooth is the same size as an LLT and HLT, but has a much higher slope tolerance. Because an area is leveled when you build on it, if you need to build an LLT, HLT, or other 1x1 building on a slope, first build a Dragon's Tooth, then reclaim it, then build your building.

I've even extended this to leveling an area on a slope to build a Guardian with DTs, though it required multiple repetitions to get the area level enough.

Posted: 27 Apr 2006, 22:43
by Egarwaen
Please, for the love of God, don't build hovercraft on maps with no water. Please. Especially not as your first L2 plant. If we've won and are just cleaning up? Great, whatever. If we're still fighting, and there's a horde of units heading for your base... Just say no.

Felix: Mind if I add that tip to the Unit Guide in the Wiki?

Posted: 27 Apr 2006, 22:50
by wizard8873
(AA) If the enemy keeps attacking your base and you are hacing a hard time keeping a force large enough to counter it, use a ressurection bot and ressurect the corpes that you can. just remember, while the ressurection bots don't use metal, they do use energy.

(AA) While slow, zeuses do pack quite a punch and they have good armor. combine them while some lvl1 kbots or tanks, and some mavericks and you've got a good force to break through a line.

if the map is dominantly hilly, take charge of the hills. they give you better coverage and its harder to take well defended hills. if an enemy's base is around hills, take some kbots around the edge and make your way into the base. most people neglect to put defenses on hills surrounding their bases.

Posted: 27 Apr 2006, 23:32
by Kixxe
We should format the tips into the Wiki.


Anyone up for the job? :P

Posted: 27 Apr 2006, 23:34
by Felix the Cat
Egarwaen wrote:Felix: Mind if I add that tip to the Unit Guide in the Wiki?
Certainly.