Spring RTS Engine

another picture why tex2 reflection is such important (and still 90% of spring modelers _don't use it at all_, what is a DAMN FAILURE)
1. it gives the model a metallic look (and 90% of the models are metallic!!!)
2. it gives the model _depth_ (esp. when it or the camera moves)


SO GUYS USE THE GREEN CHANNEL IN TEXTURE2!!! it is even more important than a good tex1!

jK wrote:

Beherith wrote:Mmm detail shader, tell me more :)

I would especially like to know if you are using a second set of UVs for it or if youre just wrapping a texture on it.

it's a detalmap shader, so no additional uv map. It's just the stock renderer with ~4 additional lines that splat the detailmap across the texture (in 2 different resolutions to reduce repetition). It mixes it minor into the diffuse color and heavily into the specular reflection term.

Cool! Have you thought of incorporating different resolutions into different channels of the image? I'm guessing you are using greyscale anyway. Its common to store multiple octaves of noise in different channels of an RGBA image.


EDIT: Yeah tex2 is essential, even if its just a grayscale copy of the luminance of the diffuse color. Incorporating different noise into it really has a profound effect.

EDIT2: Thanks for the map comment, it will also be playable for 4way FFA.

90% seems like a wild exaggeration

Nota Bene: Those models are not actually textured with a true texture 1 so adding texture 2 for them seems a bit of an ask atm.

Though I guess even having a junk T2 to go with the junk T1 helps pick out specular highlights.

Beherith wrote:Cool! Have you thought of incorporating different resolutions into different channels of the image? I'm guessing you are using greyscale anyway. Its common to store multiple octaves of noise in different channels of an RGBA image.

Putting multiple detailmaps into the other channels would be possible, but putting octaves into them doesn't make sense -> it won't save you from fetching the texture multiple times. Cause i.e. in R channel you got fullres texture, in G you put 50% shrunk one (2x2), and in B you do it another time (4x4). The problem is now that all these ocatves share their repetition `borders`, so when the full octave repeats all other do to -> this becomes visible to the eye. So you won't prevent the repetition effect this way. The only way is to use octaves != NPOT -> e.g. fetch the tex ones with detailTexCoord.xy * 0.5 and another time with detailTexCoord.xy * 0.333

smoth wrote:90% seems like a wild exaggeration

underestimation cause there are less map features
edit: oh, you mean modelers. It's my experience, but the error maybe -+20%, still it's >50%

So, basically every mod, regardless of texture-skills can look like this?
table.remove(CheapExcuses,"I cant texture, therefore i cant release")

Nah, it's just that we all can learn and that's what I why made that post, to focus on a feature that often is underestimated.

PS: even 3DOs were rendered with 0.5 in tex2 green channel, so don't save with specular term. 0.5 - 0.8 isn't much, it should be the standard. Even organics as wood have specular terms around 0.3-0.5

Such high specular + normal mapping gadget tends to result in excessive white blobs

yeah I get a bit absorbed in my own work so I seldom really notice what the other modeler types are not doing.. if you are going by individual instead of the quantity generated by individuals 50-60% is probably being generous considering the sheer amount of people who never really improve their abilities

Yep, tex2 is almost more important than tex1. Better idea is to use a little gadget that separates green form blue though so that you can control specular independently from reflections.

Forboding Angel wrote:Better idea is to use a little gadget that separates green form blue though so that you can control specular independently from reflections.

isnt that the case even without an extra gadget?

LordMuffe wrote:

Forboding Angel wrote:Better idea is to use a little gadget that separates green form blue though so that you can control specular independently from reflections.

isnt that the case even without an extra gadget?

Not as far as I know.

Flozi, you can individually customize the specular (power and amount) and reflection amount in the normalmapping shader.

Random question from the depths of lurkdom:
- is there some extant meta-spring tech to actually specify the specular color?

Like, i want a black material that is glossy, but the glimmers are blood red.

Yes, smoth's custom material shaders can do this very extensively, but it also not much work to apply this to individual units.

This is true but depending on the map's sun the specular may not be seen at all. One of the biggest problems is that spring map makers largely do shit jobs with lighting and sky resuting in orange reflections etc (tabula etc) or don't consider lighting at all(tons of spring maps).

I am thinking about adding a secondary phong that is from a constant angle or perhaps an opposite angle to combat it but at the moment no luck so far. It is where most of my shader research is going towards currently

depending on the map's sun the specular may not be seen at all

Unfortunately it doesn't seem there are any lua controls over sun direction either. Oh well.

smoth wrote:This is true but depending on the map's sun the specular may not be seen at all. One of the biggest problems is that spring map makers largely do shit jobs with lighting and sky resuting in orange reflections etc (tabula etc) or don't consider lighting at all(tons of spring maps).

2 years ago this would have been true, but since then, mappers have been doing a good job with lighting for the most part.

list all the maps that have come out in the past 2 years... not counting different releases you maybe have 1/20th(in before this is a bullshit number, I am not bothering to go count) the spring library of maps. Then you start to look at the ones with lighting that was made to better utilize the specular component of texture 2 you will realize none were. A few may have settings that will do decent but we still have mappers producing work that doesn't really utilize the lighting to make the models look good.

this is including my own work. None of us really considered how it worked with specular/reflections! how do I know? I was the ONLY one to notice when reflections were broken for some time . If I wasn't the only one, whoever raises your hand is a douche for not posting on mantis!

I guess im a douche then. But i only noticed after you posted, good Sir, so
-douchê!

Douching can improve your health and general cleanliness