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Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 21 Mar 2011, 18:30
by SirArtturi
SpliFF wrote:I don't think foreign meddling can be ruled out as the cause of the uprising. I'd even go as far as to say it's pretty likely. I know some of the rebels are turncoat army units but on the whole the rebels appear surprisingly well equipped and trained. I mean where does your average pissed off mob find so many AA cannons and heavy machine guns and people capable of operating them effectively? There is a pretty marked difference between the rioters in Egypt throwing stones and the rioters in Libya shooting down fighter jets and taking out tanks. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find the leaders of the attacks are actually SAS, Sandline or Blackwater mercenaries.
Libya has a national service/conscription. So It's not a wonder that people are pretty capable of operating even modern military arsenal.
That also leads me to think how problematic It is to define who is purely just a civilian and who is not.
You have no doubt point there, the situation is completely different than in Egypt - this is a civil war, not just an uprising.
There has been some debate whether it could be a tribal war going on? - Tribes loyal to Gaddafi against Tribes against his office.
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 21 Mar 2011, 19:10
by SwiftSpear
The situation, as I understand it, because Libya is an oil region, the powers that be needed stability there as soon as possible, so they just picked a side and they're gonna make it happen.
I don't think the uprising was incited by anyone in the west, the west probably would have preferred to have their puppet dictator, but a protesting divided unproductive Libya isn't in the west's best interests.
Now, if you argue that Al Quieda was the force that was meddling, that's a possibility I've been seriously considering. I don't think it's anywhere near as extreme as Gaddafi was claiming though.
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 21 Mar 2011, 20:48
by hoijui
that's what the UN is here for. so nations can come together and throw the dices on the round table, to see whom to fight with, and whom against, because there is usually a total lack of rational arguments in the room.
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 21 Mar 2011, 23:59
by Das Bruce
hoijui wrote:throw the dices on the round table, to see whom to fight with, and whom against, because there is usually a total lack of rational arguments in the room.
MVQ hoijui summarises politics in a sentance.
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 22 Mar 2011, 00:08
by Wombat
thats true, but u have to admit that UN made any steps after confirming genocide. it was not the usa way of thinking that 'they MIGHT have nooks'. for me, +1 for UN (this time)
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 22 Mar 2011, 18:59
by Pxtl
The difference between Libya and Bahrain isn't just the amicability of the leader, but also that the rebels actually took control of cities there. There's a real chance that the rebels can actually win, and not simply because the ruler played nicey nicey (Tunisia) or the military stepped in (Egypt). If the UN wanted to step into Bahrain to protect the protestors, they'd have to invade. The Libyan rebels can be protected simply by protecting the city of Benghazi.
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 23 Mar 2011, 06:46
by SwiftSpear
Pxtl wrote:The difference between Libya and Bahrain isn't just the amicability of the leader, but also that the rebels actually took control of cities there. There's a real chance that the rebels can actually win, and not simply because the ruler played nicey nicey (Tunisia) or the military stepped in (Egypt). If the UN wanted to step into Bahrain to protect the protestors, they'd have to invade. The Libyan rebels can be protected simply by protecting the city of Benghazi.
They're not going to just "protect" Benghazi. That's all they'll admit they're going to do, but they're gonna try to remove and replace Gaddafi as quickly as possible.
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 23 Mar 2011, 11:44
by BaNa
SwiftSpear wrote:Pxtl wrote:The difference between Libya and Bahrain isn't just the amicability of the leader, but also that the rebels actually took control of cities there. There's a real chance that the rebels can actually win, and not simply because the ruler played nicey nicey (Tunisia) or the military stepped in (Egypt). If the UN wanted to step into Bahrain to protect the protestors, they'd have to invade. The Libyan rebels can be protected simply by protecting the city of Benghazi.
They're not going to just "protect" Benghazi. That's all they'll admit they're going to do, but they're gonna try to remove and replace Gaddafi as quickly as possible.
And good for them. Shooting unarmed civilians with .50 cal is stepping over a line (yes, civilians, not the current rebels but simple protesters).
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 24 Mar 2011, 13:58
by AF
Tianenman style massacres are happening or have happened in almost every middle eastern country at the moment. There's no furore over Syrias indiscriminate shooting of protestors, Bahraini, Iranian, or Tunisian, and only mild mention of Yemeni killings. Heck there are still reports of arbitrary arrests and killings by the new government forces in Tunisia and other 'revolutionised' countries in the region
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 24 Mar 2011, 14:20
by PicassoCT
Those of you who enter abandone all hope
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 24 Mar 2011, 18:58
by 1v0ry_k1ng
there is somthing depressing about seeing local gigs and event shut down because the council funding has been slashed to save money.. then turn on the tv to hear about british fighters spamming out dozens of ground attack missiles that cost £750,000+ each
but yeah, europe world police activate, pretty awesome.
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 28 Mar 2011, 21:33
by Jools
It's good that UN for once can unite and take an action in defence of human rights, I would hope that Europe also could contribute a bit more to this kind of policing in the world, we tend to lean to much on the side of 'soft power'.
On the other hand it's also important that these kinds of actions are legitimate, a thing that can be very hard to prove and it's usually subjective. For instance, one could argue that the permant members of UNSC no longer represent the true voice of the world.
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 29 Mar 2011, 01:46
by Wombat
Jools wrote:It's good that UN for once can unite and take an action in defence of human rights
human rights? ppl in libya had better life than, for example usa fanboys from saudi arabia. free education, heath care, electricity, damn cheap petrol, 600 follars for unemployed. if someone wanted to prevent genocide, why they dont help sudan ? defence of human rights ? how about RPA ? they elected new president in democratic voting but old one is still ruling. and ppl still die.
fact is 4 biggest european companys lost concession (i think its the right word) to transport oil from libya. gaddafi didnt want to extend them.
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 29 Mar 2011, 03:32
by bobthedinosaur
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/bel ... an-support
Studying for exam, cant find better source, but I've ran across a couple better ones.
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 29 Mar 2011, 03:55
by Wombat
someone who was shaking his hand with obama and most european leaders is automaticly considered as a foe by al-qaeda. im more suprised that arab league supported the attack tbh.
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 29 Mar 2011, 08:47
by Cheesecan
hoijui wrote:that's what the UN is here for. so nations can come together and throw the dices on the round table, to see whom to fight with, and whom against, because there is usually a total lack of rational arguments in the room.
Word.
Bahrain peaceful protesters = had their wives buttfucked in their homes while they watch.
Cote d'ivoire = being overthrown by colonial buttfuckers France in secret, world media acts like Laurent Bagbo is a dictator when the opposition is secretly France's man. :D
People who don't understand politics and people who don't know history are one and the same, I find.
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 30 Mar 2011, 18:14
by yuritch
Wombat wrote:im more suprised that arab league supported the attack tbh.
No big surprise here, Gaddafi wasn't considered a friend among other Arabian rulers. For a start, his Libyan ruling system is a form of socialism, very unlike for example Saudian monarchy, so he is/was a natural enemy of most other local rulers.
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 30 Mar 2011, 18:39
by Wombat
well tbh this whole conflict is strange. france attacking first, russia asking for peace, germany avoiding fight, arab league being against someone that made europe his bitch, lol wtf
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 30 Mar 2011, 21:10
by PicassoCT
Its Gadafis Infection - its spreading.
Brb Madagaskar
Re: U.N. okays military action on Libya
Posted: 16 Apr 2011, 21:00
by dimm
+3 SirArtturi