Spring RTS Engine

smoth wrote:

smoth wrote: To answer yans earlier question, sorry about that yan. Yes that bug was fixed.

You mean in f3?
I played f2 yesterday and i had the resource bar on by default and the widget removing it off by default.

char/ez8/sniper/pgm/dom

They dominate for this reason: they are excellent against t0/1 spam which is popular. Creative use of artillery and beamrifle mechs can deal with them. Their speed also makes for great micro against those with lesser range. Snipers are good for the fact they are good against large mechs, and even beamrifle mechs, clearing it up for the dashers. artillery can counter.

An X shaped map could be cool, assuming the center is opened up a bit. kind of like an arena.

also at otherside. My stab at your grammar was not my rebuttal, it was me trying to help you get respected.

overkill wrote:An X shaped map could be cool, assuming the center is opened up a bit. kind of like an arena.

I want an Overkill-forum-avatar shaped map!

~

Gota wrote:

smoth wrote:

smoth wrote: To answer yans earlier question, sorry about that yan. Yes that bug was fixed.

You mean in f3?
I played f2 yesterday and i had the resource bar on by default and the widget removing it off by default.

that should not happen

re sound: use a recent spring git build, it should list bad sounds; open and save in an audio editor like audacity. if it doesn't, ask a linux user who has recent (non-crashing) OpenAL for that list (it'll be in the infolog.)

will do imbaczek

When it's about the eco system my only critique would be that partly destroying someone else's base doesn't really give you a big advantage (which it should imo). The "problem" is the more you destroy his base the more (basic) ressources your enemy will get again. In other words your enemy can regenerate pretty fast from your attacks. When doing 1on1s on not too small maps you don't get a big advantage even if the attack force you had gathered for quite a long time has had quite a success. That's because of the fact that unit building does not drain the ressource for structure building. So in the end the reward for good tactics / unit micro isn't as big as it should be and it sometimes artificially makes the match last longer although the outcome is clear...

When talking about some general issues I only have a few comments:

Newbies are faced with a rather hard learning curve in your game imo and even I find it rather "annoying" to get some info only by extensive experimenting. One of the first problems I had when starting to play your game was that besides things that e.g. the federation mechs look a bit much the same (for a reason) I found the buildlist sorting a bit unintuitive. You just get this huge collection of pics showing mechs with a quite random sorting. Heroes / limited units are spread all over the list, similar types like Snipers aren't sorted next to each other and you also don't really get to know which unit type is from which tech level (you learn that over time but it's nowhere obvious as the new buildpics pop up over the entire buildlist). So imo you really should do a sorting of everything - you e.g. put together those two Federation artillery mechs but why aren't the Snipers together? There are quite some more examples for this. You also might want to give sort of a clue for a unit's tech level or role as this probably is the most difficult thing for new players: You get a fancy name and maybe the name of its weapon but have no clue what this now is about. So besides sorting units of similar roles next to each other maybe do like different colored line grids behind the actual unit's pic so you get a clue of its tech level or role or do anything else that comes to your mind to give a clue of something being a close-combat or long-range unit type and whatever classes you'd like to come up with...

The same problem of things you only get to know by extensive experiment then for example is the question of which weapons fire over walls. I for example was surprised that the DOM with the beam rifle can fire over walls while my snipers can't. You might call it something you have to learn but firing up a game against an empty AI and then writing down a list for yourself where you tried every unit to find out who can fire over walls / who can go up steep cliffs and so on is not very entertaining. This probably is related to what I wrote about buildlists / buildpics - there simply are some hints of this kind needed to make your game more accessible...

Maybe this is something you should adress in your info sheets. I didn't check out your latest ones but the initial stuff I had a look at like some fancy buildpic collection for each tech level really wasn't helpful...

So I hope I could give you a good idea on what things you could improve...

Gota wrote:

smoth wrote:

smoth wrote: To answer yans earlier question, sorry about that yan. Yes that bug was fixed.

You mean in f3?
I played f2 yesterday and i had the resource bar on by default and the widget removing it off by default.

I think it retains the settings from f1 so if the widgets were disabled by that they remain disabled until you change that.

[Krogoth86] wrote:When it's about the eco system my only critique would be that partly destroying someone else's base doesn't really give you a big advantage (which it should imo). The "problem" is the more you destroy his base the more (basic) ressources your enemy will get again. In other words your enemy can regenerate pretty fast from your attacks.

At the best they have 2k or whatever starting resources were set. Meaning that they are virtually at square 1. Add to that there is a delay between each building they cannot instantly be back.

[Krogoth86] wrote: When doing 1on1s on not too small maps you don't get a big advantage even if the attack force you had gathered for quite a long time has had quite a success.

Got a replay for this one?

[Krogoth86] wrote:That's because of the fact that unit building does not drain the resource for structure building. So in the end the reward for good tactics / unit micro isn't as big as it should be and it sometimes artificially makes the match last longer although the outcome is clear...

Refined costs basic. So buildings reduce what you can be building in units. not sure I would agree with this assertion. if you pulled off a sucessfull attack and only targeted machinists I would say it was probably not the best target. I always go for conyards and power. That is where your damage should go to.

[Krogoth86] wrote: Newbies are faced with a rather hard learning curve in your game imo and even I find it rather "annoying" to get some info only by extensive experimenting. . . . . . So imo you really should do a sorting of everything - you e.g. put together those two Federation artillery mechs but why aren't the Snipers together? There are quite some more examples for this.

sorting, gotcha. How is this:

Assault
rockets
special/multipurpose
long range/snipers
artillery

[Krogoth86] wrote:
You also might want to give sort of a clue for a unit's tech level or role as this probably is the most difficult thing for new players: You get a fancy name and maybe the name of its weapon but have no clue what this now is about. So besides sorting units of similar roles next to each other maybe do like different colored line grids behind the actual unit's pic so you get a clue of its tech level or role or do anything else that comes to your mind to give a clue of something being a close-combat or long-range unit type and whatever classes you'd like to come up with...

like: because I have that there. I am going to extend unit info later but right now I had to settle for something short. but yes later I plan on a unit guide that exists in game.

[Krogoth86] wrote:The same problem of things you only get to know by extensive experiment then for example is the question of which weapons fire over walls. . . . . . more accessible...

most units can fire over the walls fine. I am not sure why the sniperII has that issue, I will look into it though.

[Krogoth86] wrote: Maybe this is something you should adress in your info sheets. I didn't check out your latest ones but the initial stuff I had a look at like some fancy buildpic collection for each tech level really wasn't helpful...

they are just there to illustrate tech levels. I didn't have the time to make a whole new batch of well thought out images. Too much text is too likely to be skipped by the game loading fast or they are not finished reading it. That and I cannot guaranty that they will ever see them all.

[Krogoth86] wrote: So I hope I could give you a good idea on what things you could improve...

I am sure a new general unit guide will also help. Something I was working on prior to leaving for the trip. I will get back on it after I get some more documentation done.

Ok played some and speced some, observations were:

- g3/rx78, needs a hp reduction.
- being able to have fag, nt1, rx78-2/g3 is fucking brutal, need to use a group limit on them.
- minovs don't work FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFuck.
- fanfans, reduce them a bit.
- fed aa a little too good.

damn, didn't get to do any docs tonight. Well, fuck, will have to do them tomorrow.

smoth wrote:- being able to have fag, nt1, rx78-2/g3 is fucking brutal, need to use a group limit on them.

What? They're ~400 exo each, you get 72 exo per minute maximum, to get all three Gundams you'd need ~15 minutes with no exo spending (i.e. no BRs, no snipers, etc), what was your enemy DOING?

wasn't my enemy but I watched alcari get the g3 and nt1 on some hunterW map, it was really porcy.

smoth wrote:wasn't my enemy but I watched alcari get the g3 and nt1 on some hunterW map, it was really porcy.

Well, that sounds like a pretty darned good porcbreaker to me. It's a feature, not a bug.

it was also ubearably op, zeon players have no way to counter against it making an ugly dynamic of feddies can own you out right after X time. That is not something I want to see in gundam. One gundam is bad enough, the fully upgraded rx78g3 is sick, allowing g3+ another gundam is stupid op. I need to make it within reason. Trust me, there was nothing the other player could do against the g3+nt1. IT was a good game and the loosing players did really well almost winning at one point.

I want to avoid win button units. I should probably also say that the winner would have won the game with just the g3.. the nt1 made it impossible for him to lose.

Just a thought- maybe use Lua and disable the ability to build X if Y exists on your team. Might help with that, without shattering your gameplay otherwise.

Group limits pretty much do that. effectively saying that if player A builds gundam1 he cannot also build gundam2

Well, I was just saying that maybe for the specific issues, that might be a way to target bad RPS combos, instead of weakening the units. But meh, I haven't had time to play it yet, so I'm probably wrong and you can just nerf stuff and get it working right.