Spring RTS Engine

Beherith wrote:This is my n-1th reply in this thread, since the fundamental difference between us is this:

force all mods to dumb down their balance due to wildly varying gravity, or suffer the consequence of broken games.

I think that having variable gravity is not dumbing down, its adding complexity.
Replacing gravity with a predetermined value is dumbing down. Making something simpler and less complex with less variability=dumbing down.

QED.

Fluctuating gravity prevents complexity forming. It's like saying that a random +- 20% hp change to bots would add complexity, sure it would make them used sometimes but only on the games with the decent buff.

The thing is CA is trying to use gravity a bit more which turns gravity into a 'more serious' balance stat such as HP. An example is the blastwing that does a lot of it's damage with shrapnel. On a low gravity map the shrapnel will fly a lot further effectively increasing it's AOE and range.

It may be fine in BA as in BA gravity is just a graphical curiosity used to create the map's atmosphere.

JohannesH wrote:Its also limiting the scope of things mappers can do for that game. Should, for example, BA try to normalize Trademarks maps because they make BA silly?

Gravity override could even be a modoption. If people want to play a silly map(which are good occasionally) they can untick it but know that they can't except balance.

CarRepairer wrote:

imbaczek wrote:i believe synced lua should have control over map parameters. relations between mods and maps should take the form of gentleman's agreements, not superficially imposed technical barriers.

+1

Not many people know Geyser, one of CA's most popular 1v1 maps, has a hover movetype increase. This means you cant play chickens (many of which use the 'swimming' hovercraft movetype) and a land-viable hover factory would be mega broken on that map.

Though, truth is you can have a floating land/sea unit without it being a 'hover', the only thing 'hover' defines AFAICT is that its not hit by torpedoes- something you can do with target categories. So anyone experiencing problems with hover movetypes should consider this (im looking at you, forb).

Nevertheless, when you have a weapon like the newton which applies only impulse force, rather than damage and whose whole purpose is to toss around units, gravity breaks it a lot. BA has impulse specifically removed on almost all of its units and most maps are made for BA: Im sure you can understand the consequences, there.

Saktoth wrote:Im sure you can understand the consequences, there.

No, don't be so sure. It's four pages of arguments over something so trivial as setting a number.

CarRepairer wrote:It's four pages of arguments over something so trivial as setting a number.

It's because some people/mappers can't comprehend that maps are supposed to be slaves (i.e. do only what allowed to do) to games they are played with, else it creates a mess like this gravity issue.