Spring RTS Engine

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 15:47**

Machiosabre wrote:call me crazy but doesn't anything mixed in with emp spiders beat lvl2 vehicles?
People have just gotten to lazy to bother with anything besides the memory of nuclear powered mavericks.

Nope, too short range. Before you get them in range it's dead. Similar holds true for zeus. Good player will see you at max range and will keep distance. This is also problem for maverick (which has 6x worse hp/cost than t1 vehicles btw).

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 15:55**

Well, the problem is that kbots aren't supposed to have a heavy, mid-ranged, straight-up combat unit, since that's the whole point of tanks. For fast, long-ranged skirmishers you've the Mav and the Fido (or the Morty). For close-ranged assault, you've the Zeus, the Can, and the Pyro.

But basically, kbots are _supposed_ to lose in a stand-up fight. That's the point.

If you really need that kind of combat-power in your kbots, play Core and use the Sumo.

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 16:30**

I guess the arm lvl2 kbot assault units are a bit bland but the support units a bit a bit to good as it is.
I would propose lowering the build time of the fido to make them a bit like morties except as spamable assault instead of spamable arty.

mavs are a bit crappy to but I'd rather see them become something completely different than return to the annoying old mavs.

Just as long as snipers get nerfed a bit.

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 18:02**

changelog so far wrote:4.41 --> next
Fixed the metalammount of the Targeting facility's corpses and heaps
Gave Janus its "arc" Weapon as in AA
Decreased Doomsday Costs by 30% (also adjusted corpses)
Increased Doomsday HP by 11%
Made radar planes, Radar/Sonar planes
Arm Blade (Level2 Gunship) will no longer chase planes
Greatly reduced the bugginess of skeeters/searchers to fire their AA missle.
Corpse of Hive no longer floats
All seaplanes have floater=1; now, so they can land on the water
Seaplane radar/sonar planes, sonarrange doubled.
The advanced Construction subs are deeper in the water now, so their buildturret will not come to the surface.
Decreased Core Mohomine costs/builtime/corpsevalues to match the Arm version more.
Made the lasers thicker and more colourfull.
Vamps/Hawks Flare reloadtime increased by 40%, grounddamage reduced by 10 %
Seaplanes can now be build by L1 Con Ships
Seaplaneplatform costs increased by 20 % (and corpse)
Juggernaut costs reduced by 10 % (and corpse)
Pelican maxvelocity increased by 30 %
Gave NavalEngineers more buildpower
Seismic detectors costs Halved (and corpse)
Made the Destroyerships able to fire while retreating/turning.
Underwaterfusions produce more E now, they are on par with regular fusions now
Floating metalmakers make 1.1 metal per 60 E now
Underwater Mohomakers make 13 metal per 600 E now

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 18:31**

Whoa - the land-radar-planes are getting Sonar?

How do they compare, stat-wise, the the sea sonar?

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 18:45**

Pxtl wrote:Whoa - the land-radar-planes are getting Sonar?

How do they compare, stat-wise, the the sea sonar?

They had sonar for a while but they were changed sometime recently - I guess 2.2.

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 19:10**

changelog so far wrote:4.41 --> next
The advanced Construction subs are deeper in the water now, so their buildturret will not come to the surface.

The advanced construction sub is really expensive in comparison to the con ship (~700 metal vs ~250 for the con ship). It only has 50 more worker times. I think its cost should come down to ~400-500 metal.

changelog so far wrote:4.41 --> next
Made the Destroyerships able to fire while retreating/turning.

I would be very careful about making this change. While ships do currently suck, this change very effectively gave destroyers a weakness, so that sea games weren't only about who could rush a destroyer faster. Currently destroyers require support ships to assist in close range combat. To improve hover/sea balance, I would buff the corvette instead.

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 19:16**

LordMatt wrote:
changelog so far wrote:4.41 --> next
Made the Destroyerships able to fire while retreating/turning.
I would be very careful about making this change. While ships do currently suck, this change very effectively gave destroyers a weakness, so that sea games weren't only about who could rush a destroyer faster. Currently destroyers require support ships to assist in close range combat. To improve hover/sea balance, I would buff the corvette instead.

This is a bugfix actually.

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 19:45**

NoiZe increased the worker time on Tech 2 naval engineers instead of the T2 con sub to fit in with the greatly more cost effective worker time of Con ships to that of Con subs, so I wouldnt worry about the Con subs matt.

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 19:53**

How bout a little extra buff on the pelican?

Currently, it's weapon does 80 damage - same as scout hover.

Except that when factoring in reload time (0.75 vs 0.60) Scout hover is slightly more effect, earlier to get and cheaper.

I suppose a SLIGHT damage buff (to 90/100) and 25 more range (to 300) would do the trick.

And don't tell me pels are for raiding - because by the time you can get them the raiding stage is far over, units and defenses litter bases.

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 20:03**

well I'm going to tell you they're for raiding anyway, the point of it is that people don't often defend their shores, or stuff behind say, a river or something.

as far as amphibians go it's still pretty good, I could find more use for it than say a gimpy or poison arrow.

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 20:06**

The fact is that in OTA, most of the L2 gear wasn't _better_ than the L1 hardware, it was just _wierder_. The Zeus's weapon was even more freakishly short ranged, the pop-ups were actually worse than their L1 counterparts (except that they could pop up), etc. With that in mind, the weak-assed Pelican fit in nicely with those freaks.

AA changed that approach, so the Pelican needs to change too. Right now, it's just a really bad hover that is totally out of place in the L2 bot factory.

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 21:02**

o.O
IIRC pellys were uberly OP in OTA...
xD

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 21:09**

NOiZE wrote: This is a bugfix actually.

Maybe I misunderstood what you are changing. Caydr made them unable to fire unless they were facing in the general direction of the target, and that effectively solved a major seabalance issue (the destroyer rush > all). My point was that if you are undoing this change, that seabalance issue will reappear. If you are doing something else, then go for it.

DemO wrote:NoiZe increased the worker time on Tech 2 naval engineers instead of the T2 con sub to fit in with the greatly more cost effective worker time of Con ships to that of Con subs, so I wouldnt worry about the Con subs matt.

Is there a reason for them to cost 700metal?

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 21:10**

Min3mat wrote:o.O
IIRC pellys were uberly OP in OTA...
xD

Yes, because most of the L2 gear in OTA was weaker. Plus, that missile-launcher was anti-ground. Unfortunately, I can't find the old OTA stat website I used to use to double-check.

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 21:11**

LordMatt wrote:
NOiZE wrote: This is a bugfix actually.
Maybe I misunderstood what you are changing. Caydr made them unable to fire unless they were facing in the general direction of the target, and that effectively solved a major seabalance issue (the destroyer rush > all). My point was that if you are undoing this change, that seabalance issue will reappear. If you are doing something else, then go for it.

remember that we removed the decklaser, and slowed it down quite a lot.

It just really looks dumb when the destroyer is retreating and can't shoot, just because it isn't allowed too....

LordMatt wrote:
DemO wrote:NoiZe increased the worker time on Tech 2 naval engineers instead of the T2 con sub to fit in with the greatly more cost effective worker time of Con ships to that of Con subs, so I wouldnt worry about the Con subs matt.
Is there a reason for them to cost 700metal?

Well they have the advantage of being underwater and therefor can go on secret missions.

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 21:17**

NOiZE wrote: remember that we removed the decklaser, and slowed it down quite a lot.

Fair enough, that's why they were sucking so bad now

NOiZE wrote: Well they have the advantage of being underwater and therefor can go on secret missions.

IIRC, they die very easily too though. Maybe an HP buff is in order if you are going to keep them at their current cost. I think the genesis of the problem was that the construction ships had their workertime buffed without a cost increase by caydr, making the subs seem over priced.

Posted: **29 Dec 2006, 23:35**

pels were OP in OTA cause there was a bug that they got only like 10% of normal damage when floating in water.

But yeh they suck hard atm. L2 sub is quite ok as it rarely gets killed.

changelog looks good.

Posted: **30 Dec 2006, 02:01**

LordMatt wrote:I post mainly because I argued strongly that hovers should be targetable by these units in the AA thread, but got overruled by the noob army surrounding Caydr.

No, you got overruled by the fact that it's not possible in Spring.

Posted: **30 Dec 2006, 03:23**

Caydr wrote: No, you got overruled by the fact that it's not possible in Spring.

YES, I AM NOW AWARE THAT THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE IN SPRING ATM.

To be fair, though, the nub army didn't like the idea either.

Spring RTS Engine

Balanced Annihilation v4.7 !!