Spring RTS Engine

shift = 5
crtl = 20
shift+ctrl = 100

I would like to say that I think that reclaiming speed needs a serious buff. Your commander taking more than one minute to reclaim a factory really isnt right. I know that it has been done like this so its hard to use building power as a weapon, but maybe reclaim speed could be faster only if the target is ally or something?

Forboding Angel wrote:shift = 5
crtl = 20
shift+ctrl = 100

Ah ok - I mixed up ctrl and shift...

Jamuk426 wrote:I don't know how well it would work out in gameplay, but what if you could stockpile metal and save it for later?

You could make a block of metal feature, like dragonsteeth. Each would have higher metal values, say 500 maybe, and would allow you to save up over time for a rainy day, while also providing a short term way to stop metal overflow.

If you set a conbot building a block of them, you would be able to reclaim them later on in an emergency while only creating a small impact on your economy.

Like I said, I'm not sure how well it would work out, but I thought it might be a neat idea, and would require very little work to put in place.

We had a ticket going about how some people don't like the "storage dies penalty" gadget because it hurts you too much. But there are reasons for keeping it as well. Zerggin made a suggestion that for M storage, when it dies it could dump a chunk (60%?) of its metal as a reclaimable feature.

I still like that idea. It would be a penalty to you because you suddenly don't have that M to build with, you'd have to reclaim it first. And you wouldn't get 100% of what was in there. But it wouldn't hurt TOO bad because it's still there for you if you manage to suck it up.

We had a ticket going about how some people don't like the "storage dies penalty" gadget because it hurts you too much.

Thats not the main argument. The argument is that in team games, you can just excess the metal to an ally before you lose the storage- also it is better to not build a storage and excess 200 metal than to build a storage and lose 60% of 1200.

Metal is transported instantly, so why cant you shuffle it around between the players and the storage? Why would you have to share it manually? Its just like the plan B widget.

manored wrote:I would like to say that I think that reclaiming speed needs a serious buff. Your commander taking more than one minute to reclaim a factory really isnt right. I know that it has been done like this so its hard to use building power as a weapon, but maybe reclaim speed could be faster only if the target is ally or something?

To reclaim factories faster you can laser them to 10% health then reclaim.

manored wrote:I would like to say that I think that reclaiming speed needs a serious buff.

It wasnt so much to stop BP being used as a weapon, thats only really a problem on nanotowers (esp with widgets). BP as a weapon is fine imo and a good 'desperation' way to save your base.

It was done to stop ninja'ing of wreckages. Its incredibly easy to run a constructor into an area with wrecks and suck it all up. Wrecks are an important part of the game, but you should have to hold, fight for, and contest wreckfields. The way that you can ninja wrecks from behind the enemy line, from new fresh battlefields and even in the middle of fighting, especially with air, means that it becomes more about who spams constructors to run reclaim sweeps and less about fighting for and securing wrecks while being careful where you leave them.

Also the way that reclaiming rocks is more effecient by far than extractors.

However, this hasnt really helped much. Ninja'ing is still really prominent. A different approach may be needed, possibly increasing the reclaim time on the wrecks directly.

As for reclaiming building, there are several trains of thought on how this might be managed.

One that you shouldnt be able to reclaim non-wrecks at all- just 'reduce to wreck' a building, then reclaim the wreck. Thus, bp isnt tied awkwardly to hp and nor is reclaim time, while you can reclaim something gradually but only while its non-functional. This also means you dont get 100% of the metal.

Another though that there should be a separate 'reclaim bar', different to HP but this doesnt have much favour.

For the forseeable future we'll probably stick with the current structure though.

Google_Frog wrote:

manored wrote:I would like to say that I think that reclaiming speed needs a serious buff. Your commander taking more than one minute to reclaim a factory really isnt right. I know that it has been done like this so its hard to use building power as a weapon, but maybe reclaim speed could be faster only if the target is ally or something?

To reclaim factories faster you can laser them to 10% health then reclaim.

Getting units to shot allied stuff is complicated tough...

I wouldnt mind having to reduce a building to wreck to reclaim it, as long as the whole thing is faster than it is now. You can build something faster than you can reclaim right now, what is stupid since everone knows that building things is harder than destroying then... :)

Not allowing Units to be Reclaimed will require an engine change, I believe.

And reclaiming rocks has always been more efficient than mines, in OTA games. Rocks and other Features that provide M were always intended to produce a faster start and an "alt econ" that could be used to power early rushes.

I think the easiest way to make "ninja" behaviors harder is to lower the health of the constructors used for such behaviors, so that they're more vulnerable to units sent in to harass them or to guard a field of corpses. They can still "ninja", but they aren't likely to survive long, if you've placed a few Peewees on patrol. If not... meh, that's your bad, imo. Why penalize the other guy, for being smarter than you?

air cons get one shot by most AA and most land units can kill them wen reclaiming

There is a reclaimable fbi tag. However, it will disable reclaiming for friendly reclaims as well as enemy reclaims.

However, it the concern is simply in reclaiming enemy units, one could use the AllowCommand lua call-in to disable reclaiming enemy units.

I think we have to change engine to slow down reclaim speed on corpses while keeping "workable" reclaim speed of other structures.

There is a reclaimTime tdf tag for features.

Argh wrote:I think the easiest way to make "ninja" behaviors harder is to lower the health of the constructors used for such behaviors, so that they're more vulnerable to units sent in to harass them or to guard a field of corpses. They can still "ninja", but they aren't likely to survive long, if you've placed a few Peewees on patrol. If not... meh, that's your bad, imo. Why penalize the other guy, for being smarter than you?

As Otherside said, air cons die very fast but are the best at ninja'ing because they are so fast.

HP isnt really the problem. By the time you even get to the con to stop him, he can already suck up a lot of the metal.

Saktoth wrote:Arm has a range of high-damage ranged weapons such as the Pene, Sniper and others to counter super heavy units like the Sumo.

Alas, it seldom works in practice (generally in larger maps where Snipers have adequate space to retreat). Snipers don't do all that much damage in CA, plus when they die, they tend to emp their fellow defenders in near vicinity, making them a liability in some situations. Second, Sumo is surprisingly fast. For example, when you try to swamp a Sumo with swarm of Zeusses, Core player can easily counter it by simply turning away. Since Zeus is only marginally faster than Sumo, what will happen is that Sumo will pick off all Zeusses before they get in range to use their weapons. IMO, the problem is mostly that Sumo is slightly too fast - since it is nearly as fast as ARM main combat bots, it is difficult to use any other theoretical advantages.

Well a big robot has big legs :) I dont think it should be made slower, if it is OP, its health or attack power should be reduced a bit...

fulcrum wrote:

Saktoth wrote:Arm has a range of high-damage ranged weapons such as the Pene, Sniper and others to counter super heavy units like the Sumo.

Alas, it seldom works in practice (generally in larger maps where Snipers have adequate space to retreat). Snipers don't do all that much damage in CA, plus when they die, they tend to emp their fellow defenders in near vicinity, making them a liability in some situations. Second, Sumo is surprisingly fast. For example, when you try to swamp a Sumo with swarm of Zeusses, Core player can easily counter it by simply turning away. Since Zeus is only marginally faster than Sumo, what will happen is that Sumo will pick off all Zeusses before they get in range to use their weapons. IMO, the problem is mostly that Sumo is slightly too fast - since it is nearly as fast as ARM main combat bots, it is difficult to use any other theoretical advantages.

It can be countered below cost from T1, you just need to play it right. I recommend swarming from multiple directions or using crawling bombs in addition to heavy ranged support.

http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/cpg/al ... ulture.jpg

Use this as the new AK model?

That looks cool but freaking ugly... but all new units are like that :) Except for core builders...

reivanen wrote:http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/cpg/al ... ulture.jpg

Use this as the new AK model?

you do relise thats like 100000 polies +...