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Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 09:52
by zwzsg
Umrug wrote:I can not play Kernel Panic, need help to solve...
Not really, I tested it and it works. There is were a couple "No Response" as game starts, but no crashes. And I didn't even need SpringSP. Oh and some other AI will crash, because of KP and marble madness being so unusual. Like, no metal could crash an AI trying to find metal spots, or something like that.
the thing is, as far as i can tell, it's not quite as simple as that. but i'll manage. i also want to set the bits on default roam, the other units on default hold position, and remove that icon too.
Err, no, sometimes I will want my bit to obey my order of go where I tell.
I'm ok with forcing kernel and socket on repeat and removing the repeat button, I'm ok with changing the default roaming/hold pos setting of units, but I'm not ok with removing the movestandorder button!
Yeah an all new GUI would be nice, but, is there anyone willing to do it?
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 10:09
by Boirunner
zwzsg wrote:
Yeah an all new GUI would be nice, but, is there anyone willing to do it?
me, eventually. and concerning the button: i didn't know people used it in kp. i guess i can leave it in, then.
the thing is, i envision an interface as minimalistic as the game. i.e. no minimap, no special order buttons, no tooltips, no nothing. the only interface element is the unit choice of the kernel and the build menu of the socket. personally, i think it'd be cool to also remove the health bars, but you cant force that.
anyway, everybody whom i've told this idea hates it, so we'll see. i just think the current GUI is overkill and not really suited well for kernel panics minimalistic gameplay. (also i want to learn to LUA script GUIs :)
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 10:19
by zwzsg
Err, no minimap? I'm all for removing the KP-useless part of
the GUI, like metal/energy, but minimap? o_O No surprise everybody whom you've told this idea hates it.
Tooltip doesn't have to be removed either, just removed the metal/energy out of it, but being able to see the name & description of the unit, and the health/max health is very usefull. And for buildmenus, buildtime cost is a very important info!
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 10:41
by Boirunner
if you make the icon-view distance a bit smaller, you don't need the minimap anyway. supcom also left out the minimap by default, for the same reason. and since KP only has so few units, each one can be (and is) represented by a unique icon, which makes playing without a minimap even easier. use zoom and tab.
as to the tooltip: i would agree in any other mod where there are more units. but kp is so simple that you will immediately get a feeling for how long what takes to build. there is no need for the buildtime in seconds - actually, no other RTS game i know of presents that information.
while i think its pretty cool spring offers so much information and so many choices, it makes the interface look cluttered when the game is so simple.
anyway, it's just an idea as of now, let's discuss it when i can actually present something.
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 13:50
by AF
The minimap is needed, I add the minimap back in on supcom, its a very valuable early warning system, I dont want to ahve popping in and out of max zoom all the time.
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 15:16
by Pxtl
I'd put the build-time right on the icons for all the units. Or make the build-time the metal cost (made irrelevant by kernel, socket, and assembler making oodles of metal anyways). Build time is useful info. D/S would also be good to know.
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 15:22
by TradeMark
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 15:27
by Umrug
I've tried to run "commanders" from spring.exe, tried the NTAI, tried everything - "No response" appears once, then immediate crash.
Any ideas?
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 16:29
by Boirunner
wow! this is perfect! i think this map will play very well.
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 18:33
by Pxtl
Need to start assembling a map-list of KP-compatible maps. So far there's the original Marble Madness, the new Major Madness, and now this Speed Ball map. Anything else?
Posted: 27 Apr 2007, 00:45
by Saktoth
Azure Rampart, Geyser Plains, Mars...
Any map with a few geos is 'KP-compatible'...
Performance may vary but thats the same with any mod.
Actually, it would be luls to play KP-designed maps with an OTA-based mod. I dont suppose they have any metal? Greenfields with ramps and geos...
Posted: 27 Apr 2007, 01:08
by Boirunner
Saktoth wrote:Actually, it would be luls to play KP-designed maps with an OTA-based mod. I dont suppose they have any metal? Greenfields with ramps and geos...
I actually tried to get people together to play BA on marble madness. They all asked to change the map and quit if i didn't, tough
Posted: 27 Apr 2007, 01:44
by ralphie
I dont know why.
It's flat enough for infinite stumpy spam, and isn't that what BA is all about?
Posted: 27 Apr 2007, 07:40
by Neddie
Some people dream.
Posted: 29 Apr 2007, 21:27
by Neddie
http://cs.selu.edu/~ssmith/BB/viewtopic.php?t=1256
Not much there yet, but I thought you might like to have an in.
Posted: 30 Apr 2007, 08:07
by Boirunner
zwzsg on the other forum wrote:
1) Kernel Panic is not an humouristic mod. Yes, units have extremely nerdy names, so what? It's not like it would cause anyone to laugh. To the contrary, KP is pro! It's all about raw skills!
2) You don't need a whole sentence about Disney and the Tron franchise. Just one KP screenshot, and it'll be obvious and go without mentionning.
Keywords about Kernel Panic:
- Streamlined
- Fast Paced
- No ressources. (All constructions are free)
- Short game (like, 5-10 mins)
- No building up, to teching up, no porcing up. Pure unadultered action!
- Extremely few and archetypal units.
- Plays like no other Spring mod.
- Actually, gameplay feels a bit like Z, the 1996's Bitmap Brother hit.
Kernel Panic is essentially a sublimated RTS. The ressource management has been taken away completly: all mobiles units and buildings can be constructed for free. The learning of complex tech tree has been cut out drasticly: there is only 10 units, including factories and walls. The hours long struggle so typical of TA/SupCom/Spring have been shrunk dramatically: A typical Kernel Panic game will last no longer than 10mins. Even the eye dazzling graphics every other mod strive for have been swapped for old school vectorial look, somewhat reminscent of Tron or Darwinia.
With the removal of economy management, of offense/defense balance, all that remains is pure strategy and tactics: Performing a 10sec retreat to gather your troop, choosing between staying battling units, or charging through to hit the enemy to the heart, spreading your forces to scout and skirmish everywhere around the map, or concentrating them into an unstoppable tide, taking the left, right, or middle route,.... Yes, in every RTS, you will have to make such choice, but much too often they are diluted into long and boring building up phase, repeating learnt by heart build order, building in masses only the one best unit and throw it by pack of 20 to the enemy via the direct route, ....
In other RTS, newcomers are slaughtered in 5mins by Koreans who know every little idiosyncrasy of every of the myriads units. To the contrary, Kernel Panic has such a short learning curve, that it takes about half of game to learn all there is to no know about Kernel Panic. It is not unusual for people who have never played Kernel Panic to reach the top players in their first game, as only raw skills matter in Kernel Panic.
In short, Kernel Panic is pure, unadulatered RTS fun, with all the borings bits removed, and condensed in quick and intense action.
zwzsg, you have captured the essence of kernel panic perfectly. also, your description makes kernel panic sound really really awesome
and thanks to neddiedrow for the topic and description, and the whole project you are working on. godspeed to you!
btw, i should really look at darwinia and watch tron to see what everyone is talking about.
Posted: 30 Apr 2007, 09:11
by KDR_11k
The more I think about it the more I think we need an Evil Bit unit. Some kind of unique bit that looks normal at first but opens and fires four rotating beamlasers that rape everything, friend or foe around it. And of course an Avian Carrier for airdrops.
(for those not versed in Internet jokes, the
Evil Bit and
IP over Avian Carrier were April's Fools jokes by the Internet Society Network Working Group)
EDIT: I just thought of something:
Zw, how feasible would it be to let the Kernel make a unit that exists only momentarily but makes the Kernel turn its "platform" into another direction (so you could have "turn exit north", south, east, etc "units" that alleviate the problem of players who can't set their waypoints right)? I know it could be done easily with HitByWeaponId in 75b1 but not in 74b3 and I think you have more experience with factories that are aware of what they're building. Or could Lua even turn the platform automatically depending on the direction of the first move order?
Posted: 30 Apr 2007, 09:41
by Runecrafter
KDR_11k wrote:The more I think about it the more I think we need an Evil Bit unit. Some kind of unique bit that looks normal at first but opens and fires four rotating beamlasers that rape everything, friend or foe around it.
you should call it the Kilobyte
Posted: 30 Apr 2007, 09:53
by zwzsg
From now on, the difficulty will be to refrain from the temptation of adding more units that would detract from the beauty that KP is. I already am not very keen on the mine and anti-mine warfare, so adding a new bit and some air transports....
That say I have an idea for the evil bit: basically, use BOS or LUA scripting to make it so that when a player is left with nothing but a kernel and a couple bits while the other has a large army and sockets, then one regular bit turns into an evil bit. The problem with doing it via BOS is that I can't change the unit name so no one would know it's called "evil bit". The problem with doing it via LUA is that I have no idea whether it's possible nor how.
As for turning the factory, I was thinking of, in the Create() of the kernel, loop through all units ID, somehow compute the general direction toward which most units are, and turn the buildpad toward that, rounded to nearest 90├âÔÇÜ├é┬░, once.
Posted: 30 Apr 2007, 10:15
by KDR_11k
Me too but then I figured that depending on map topology that may not be the most effective way.
