Spring RTS Engine

haven't even considered seriously playing it.

I never said I've never played it. Even testing it on speedmetal (which isn't really qualified as "testing" it, I know, but I don't exactly have uber time to throw down on it right away, what with GW:Factions and all ^_^) you can see all the flaws mentioned in this thread. I understand it's the original release and that things won't be close to perfect -- not by a long shot. I was merely commenting and my message was not intended for anyone who happens to read emotion into text. >.>

had a 4 olayer game with a couple of mates last night not on the best of maps but an old freindly war map castles and the tank wars between the two GD players were very cool one of the URC players proced but was taken out by the heavy tank attacks of the GD eventually while the other URC was using air and stealth mechs. oh it was gooooood fun.

Okay, heres a report on (most) units which should help on balancing. The efficiency score is worked out from a myriad of things and not just the values shown, and only works well for units with similar roles, so dont compare AA with ground assault, but more like lvl1 ground defenses vs level 2 ones, builders, etc. It is actually quite reliable if you know how to interpret, which you may choose to ignore it due to ignorance or arrogance. I havent got the time to be arguiing what should be made of this info, see if you can find any use to it.


http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=showitem&ID=3055

So, last night I hosted a 7 player free for all on Splintered Tropics, an island map with water shallow enough to allow for effective E&E gameplay.

There are a number of issues that jump out, and a number of strong points.

First of all, I stated before the public release that the seeming ineffectiveness of defensive strategy and defensive units would damage the gameplay greatly. No offense meant (And no pun either) but I was correct, Fang. Don't worry about it, it's what we expected, and players must adapt to it...

Weak Points
1. Air v Anti-Air: The former is far more effective, too cheap, and rather quick to build up. There is no effective anti-air strategy, as far as I can tell.
2. Mines: Mines are barely effective two minutes into the game, let alone ten. None of the seven players utilized them, as a result of this being common knowledge.
3. Planned Actions: They're useless. The game is so fast, nobody can plan a constructor's activity three buildings ahead.

Strong Points
1. Water: Water is carefully balanced between the two extremes of absurd power and uselessness. It's actually fun to utilize, for once, yet water control alone cannot win a battle.
2. Battle Pace: The game is rapid, fun, and even nearing realistic.
3. Graphics: The units are beautiful, diverse, and interesting. My favorite is by far the six-legged spider constructor.


Now... I really don't want to weigh in on the metal maker/refinery idea. It shifts the economic system absurdly. I won't dabble in the URC v GD arguement.

So... the mod lives up to it's name. You must expand and exterminate, and the game is very fast-paced. The most important question, of course, is whether it is too fast-paced and aggressive for the player base.

I enjoy watching it, I think it's good work, and like all mods it just needs refinement.

-Sehkmet Out

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to actually even think of evaluating a mod on a 7 player ffa...
and the six legged spider constructer? thats a scout...

OK here is a basic changelog for version .151

Min3mat wrote:to actually even think of evaluating a mod on a 7 player ffa...
and the six legged spider constructer? thats a scout...

Well, considering that it was sixth game of E&E, and the first ffa one? I looked through all of the replays... and I hosted two other AI games to check how AAI and OTAI held up. As a side note... AAI is buggy, OTAI favours GD heavily.

You didn't seriously think I evaluated it on one game, did you? I simply mentioned the most interesting game, because for some reason, E&E has the best FFA experience I have ever seen.

: O

Nice change-log.

Also, i am not so sure if rockets needs such a buff. Rocket Bots are nearly as much ownage as they were during the first beta, if you buff them, they will just be worse.

But lets see.

Also if you buff the health of the advanced defenses, why not buff lvl 1 too ?
The first lvl 1 of towers is where the the line stands or falls to the enemy lvl 1 spammage, plz buff lvl 1 turrets also, or we wont reach lvl 2 still.

Well, in respect to the rocket weapons, if they turn out overpowered, they can have their damage nerfed. That way we can have our anti-swarm stuff that we need.

Andreask wrote:: O

Nice change-log.

Also, i am not so sure if rockets needs such a buff. Rocket Bots are nearly as much ownage as they were during the first beta, if you buff them, they will just be worse.

But lets see.

Also if you buff the health of the advanced defenses, why not buff lvl 1 too ?
The first lvl 1 of towers is where the the line stands or falls to the enemy lvl 1 spammage, plz buff lvl 1 turrets also, or we wont reach lvl 2 still.

L1 turrets:

He did buff them, they have longer range

That is a pretty big buff and does not change them from their intended role, it just makes them better at it.

Hmm, I also noticed that builder deform the map very slowly. This is holding you up when you want to place a turret on a small hill, where the ground needs heavily deformed.

Zenka wrote:Hmm, I also noticed that builder deform the map very slowly. This is holding you up when you want to place a turret on a small hill, where the ground needs heavily deformed.

unfortunately this is not something that anything can really be done about. It is an engine thing and rely's on workertime.

In reality there needs to be a tag to tell spring how fast a worker can terraform.

Zenka, while it is possible to fix that, it would be a huge amount of work for very little benefit. It would require changing every single building's buildtime, and every single con unit's workertime.

Decimator wrote:Zenka, while it is possible to fix that, it would be a huge amount of work for very little benefit. It would require changing every single building's buildtime, and every single con unit's workertime.

I dont think settling for second best is a good way to approach a problem, especially when it takes only a few minutes to change the 200 or so values needed. open all units up and close them as the changes get made, at one value every 10 secs (extremely conservative) it would be well under an hour

then I have to balance the new times... etc.. it would be better if there were 2 different build values, one for constructing and one for terreforming...

side note, in addition to what mello posted, i also fixed 3 graphical bugs in the plasma units aiming, and increase aircraft cruise alt from roughly 150 to 300..

krogothe wrote:

Decimator wrote:Zenka, while it is possible to fix that, it would be a huge amount of work for very little benefit. It would require changing every single building's buildtime, and every single con unit's workertime.

I dont think settling for second best is a good way to approach a problem, especially when it takes only a few minutes to change the 200 or so values needed. open all units up and close them as the changes get made, at one value every 10 secs (extremely conservative) it would be well under an hour

The terraforming is about the same speed as in aa. I don't hear anyone complaining about aa neededing to change all the buildtime values and workertime values.

It's fine as it is.

Korgothe, not second best dude. #1 there is no issues cause like I said before, it it just as fast as in aa.

THis is something that needs to be changed in the spring engine. Linking terraform ability to workertime was just not a good way to do things.

NEW VERSION - http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=showitem&ID=3057

Cool. Now i'm a going to play some more games. This mod might be hard for me to learn, as i always have this wird problem where i stop expanding and need to mentally kick myself to keep it up.

Oh and armed metal extractors help a lot.

Zenka wrote:Hmm, I also noticed that builder deform the map very slowly. This is holding you up when you want to place a turret on a small hill, where the ground needs heavily deformed.

You know if you tell the unit terraforming to repair the building (the nanoframe will always appear) it stops terraforming and starts building

Well i played my second game, with the new version, and I had a BLAST! Two three man teams against eachother. The battle immideatly went toe to toe in the middle of the map. Me and Nutrilze made a good team. We smashed Blue's defences. Unfortunantly we couldent take and HOLD the ground quick enough, and Blue (working with Yellow) took the land back. We repeated this five times, with progressivly bigger guns. In the end it was yellow's snarky tactics that won. They suddenly appeared (possibly useing air transports) and smashed me in the groind (economaly speaking), destroying my nuke reactor and cutting the power to my lasers. With no factorys, builders, mines, or econ of any sort i handed my defence's to Nurilze and whatched. One by one our side was pounded by the enemy, but I am glad to say everyone put up a strong fight. J5mello kicked some ass for quite some time, with a really cool looking defensive formation. I learned the power of well placed artillery, both on my side and on the enemy's side.

And to anyone who has problems with swarms: Have your own. Ten tanks against mabey twenty mechs, and the tanks will win every single time. But only if you USE them right. If you have artillery back up, to soften the enemy, radar support and finnaly LINE YOUR UNITS UP, then you will win. However if you throw a blob of tanks at a blob of mechs, then the mechs will win. Why? Because they are faster, and can swarm around your tanks and blast them from all sides, maximizing their fire power. At least thats what I noticed.

Just my Two cents.


Oh and Fang thank you SO much for this mod!