Spring RTS Engine

"It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is." ├óÔé¼ÔÇ£Bill Clinton,

TheFatController; I've agreed with many of your criticisms of the CA development team and the project itself, but here I feel that your awareness of community history is lacking. There has been a content war raging since before I joined Spring, since before CA was conceptualized. Amid XTA, AA... Even before dissenting voices such as Tired and myself felt marginalized by other contributors to the initial incarnations of CA and formed the first era of critical discontents.

Otherside; Whatever else occurred, I can safely assert that the reversion was not due to any dislike harbored by Det in relation to you, but in the worst possible scenario dislike of the change itself. Yes, the value of work is subjective in the project model, yes - certain contributions are far more valued than others, unduly so in some cases, but that doesn't mean that they are any less necessary. If you act in order to earn respect you will never achieve anything novel.

Saktoth; That is indeed the ideal model, but it does marginalize many contributions. The criticisms of it are valid and born out in the experiences of many contributors and developers; some no longer involved, some involved to a lesser extent. I still believe that it is one of the better models for the project and more importantly that improvement upon it is prohibitively difficult. For better or worse it is what we have; as long as we do not hide the flaws adherence is fair.

Anyway, partisan argumentation isn't going to get anybody anywhere. If you wish to be productive in a discussion, you need to seek to understand the discussion before you contribute to it. Respect each other, listen to each other - take this opportunity to create, not destroy.

Jasper1984 wrote:Realism: Is it appropriate for rts?
Semi-realism: http://www.moddb.com/games/spring-1944.....
Original content: Star wars, Gundam............

ABout the realism mod: Yes some people think that yes.

About the semi-realistic: The spring 1944 is a ww2 themed rts and not a mod that make changes in xta (or ba) changing the things that are unrealistic in the game based on scientific rules.


About the original: I was talking about a mod that that tries to make the xta spring more closes to the thing that was used as a base to create it (the Total anihhilation game). One mod that do this is the Hardcore Annihilation.

exdeath wrote:

Jasper1984 wrote:Realism: Is it appropriate for rts?
Semi-realism: http://www.moddb.com/games/spring-1944.....
Original content: Star wars, Gundam............

ABout the realism mod: Yes some people think that yes.

And they are idiots. realism in an RTS is idiotic, I am too tired to argue all the points. A game has to be somewhat abstracted, which is why the s44 simi-realism has to happen. There is not a single realistic game in existence, only games that are semi-realistic because some amount of abstraction has to happen.

exdeath wrote: About the semi-realistic: The spring 1944 is a ww2 themed rts and not a mod that make changes in xta (or ba) changing the things that are unrealistic in the game based on scientific rules.

XTA isn't the base of s44, you are mistaken to think so.

Spring is not XTA, BA, it is just an engine that can run our shit. XTA and BA only share the common link of being based on OTA:CC. The rest of the projects have their own existence.

whatever, I am off to bed.

TheFatController wrote:Sorry but it was the CA team that created the "mod war", especially Otherside's constant efforts in #main, #ca and on the forums and the rest of the devs condoned it.

Otherside gives as much grief to us as to anyone else. Take a look at the latest drama between him and other elements of the team. CA's 'team' is 'whoever works on CA' and prettymuch anyone can get commit access if they ask politely (because its SVN, we can just revert any stupid commits, so commit access its not a big deal. It doesnt give you the 'authority to speak for the team' or anything).

Otherside vs BA is just fanboys vs fanboys. PS3 vs 360. We dont control Otherside and couldnt if we tried.

I make the comment regarding non-CA players voting 'no' to changes because based on past evidence, thats been the case. We made one poll where the majority of the participants picked 'dont play CA' and the very next poll, the same numbers polled against a gameplay change that was put up to poll (which isnt a vote, mind).

Circumstantial but i think you can see whats going on there.

Neddie: lol Tired.

Noruas wrote:Players, like most people, do not really know what they want, and how much they are really missing out.

That is what kept Xta barely alive.

[mode-off-topic on]
Yes of course it's all fault of xta playerz if they dont play XTA, cause they don't see how it is good
[/mode-off-topic off]

exdeath wrote: About the semi-realistic: The spring 1944 is a ww2 themed rts and not a mod that make changes in xta (or ba) changing the things that are unrealistic in the game based on scientific rules.

XTA isn't the base of s44, you are mistaken to think so.

Spring is not XTA, BA, it is just an engine that can run our shit. XTA and BA only share the common link of being based on OTA:CC. The rest of the projects have their own existence.

whatever, I am off to bed.[/quote]

Yeah, spring is not only xta, but the thing here, was about people complaining about other people talking about a another mod based on a TA. I i said that this idea (and others) about TA clone has not beeing made by anoyne.

Even if I was not talking about that spring 1942 is not the definition of semi-realism mod that I was talking about. Spring 1944 didnt got another ww2 mod for spring and used its contents while making changes to make the game semi-realistic (like some mods do with ww2 games).

I read your reply, just not responding to it.

Meh, let Community Annihilation have its way, just don't call it CA. I want to sit back and laugh at what a hideous mess of a mod it becomes when people discover that democracy doesn't work when creating a game.

smoth wrote:I read your reply, just not responding to it.

Imagine someone talking with another person about battlefield 2 and he says "hey lets do a semi-realism clone mod for battlefield 2" and the other say "ok i will start to model the panzerfaust".
The other would say "i was talking about making a semi-realism bf2 clone mod and not a just semi realism mod".

reivanen wrote:When reading the CA thread one thing becomes very clear; there are many CA players who are not happy with some of the changes the CA developers do. Still the changes are being adopted, even though the majority of the playerbase and even many of developers disagree.

The CA developers have stated clearly that its not playerbase driven development, and it never was intended to be. I think the players should decide how the mod is developed - just think about the scenario of a commercial game developer not listening to the players that bought their game and how that would turn out.

Since spring is free, we have an option here. Through Springdownloader, a module could be made that copied the CA commits, and for every commit there would be a vote yes/no, and voting status at the time of the next ca commit would decide if it was implemented or not. On top of that at every stable, there would be a vote at the forums that ensures even people not actively using springdownloaders module could be part of the decisions.

Ofcourse all credits would be given for the CA developers work, this would just be the communitys voice of what they want to adopt of the developers' ideas. Ofcourse this exact framework is already in place and could be used in CA development if they wanted to.

Are you insane? Have you been sniffing glue with sleksa in igloos?

I spend all day working for someone who tells me what to do and I get a paycheck for it. Then I come home and spend a good deal of time doing things I want for CA, for free. Perhaps if I was a complete psycho, I'd take to the idea of abandoning my own ideas for CA and waste all my free hours doing what someone else wants.

I thought better of you reivanen. I thought you were one of the good ones

TheFatController wrote:It's like a giant bowl of drama waiting to happen.

Imo great things could be done if you just took CA from around revision 1200ish (pre-economy centre, pre-normalization scripts) before it started to go downhill and turn it into what it should have been - a proper effort to improve and add exciting new features to the AA/BA line of mods.

I don't think so, nubcakes.

overkill wrote:

smoth wrote:

Otherside wrote:I dislike many changes in CA but some are livable but tbh im not content with CA's current development and trying to point that out got me muted and removed from CA dev team.

You got muted because you are a dumbass.

QFT

QFT

El Capitano wrote:Meh, let Community Annihilation have its way, just don't call it CA. I want to sit back and laugh at what a hideous mess of a mod it becomes when people discover that democracy doesn't work when creating a game.

Nobody is going to make Community Annihilation unless they wish to just screw around. This thread was generated, it seems, to make fun of Complete Annihilation. Many of the flaws of the development model for CA which the detractors cite would only be exacerbated by democracy, and others are easily apparent in the theory.

CarRepairer wrote:Are you insane? Have you been sniffing glue with sleksa in igloos?

I spend all day working for someone who tells me what to do and I get a paycheck for it. Then I come home and spend a good deal of time doing things I want for CA, for free. Perhaps if I was a complete psycho, I'd take to the idea of abandoning my own ideas for CA and waste all my free hours doing what someone else wants.

I thought better of you reivanen. I thought you were one of the good ones

TheFatController wrote:It's like a giant bowl of drama waiting to happen.

Imo great things could be done if you just took CA from around revision 1200ish (pre-economy centre, pre-normalization scripts) before it started to go downhill and turn it into what it should have been - a proper effort to improve and add exciting new features to the AA/BA line of mods.

I don't think so, nubcakes.

smoth wrote:

Otherside wrote:I dislike many changes in CA but some are livable but tbh im not content with CA's current development and trying to point that out got me muted and removed from CA dev team.

You got muted because you are a dumbass.

QFT

So much hate, it makes my igloos walls melt.

Just try to read between the lines..

neddiedrow wrote:

El Capitano wrote:Meh, let Community Annihilation have its way, just don't call it CA. I want to sit back and laugh at what a hideous mess of a mod it becomes when people discover that democracy doesn't work when creating a game.

Nobody is going to make Community Annihilation unless they wish to just screw around. This thread was generated, it seems, to make fun of Complete Annihilation. Many of the flaws of the development model for CA which the detractors cite would only be exacerbated by democracy, and others are easily apparent in the theory.

Not to make fun, just to shout out my opinion, which is more player influence in development could be a good thing.

reivanen wrote:Not to make fun, just to shout out my opinion, which is more player influence in development could be a good thing.

There's already player involvement, but honestly, many players really shouldn't have a say.

exdeath wrote:Imagine someone talking with another person about battlefield 2 and he says "hey lets do a semi-realism clone mod for battlefield 2" and the other say "ok i will start to model the panzerfaust".
The other would say "i was talking about making a semi-realism bf2 clone mod and not a just semi realism mod".

Are you mentally handicapped?

reivanen wrote: Not to make fun, just to shout out my opinion, which is more player influence in development could be a good thing.

Its very easy for any player to contact a modder and make a suggestion, and the mods thenselves are players... I think thats enough player influence :)