Spring RTS Engine

Adridar wrote: @LordMatt - Is there a difference between 1 and +1? cause it was already set for 1, which I'm assuming is the middle mouse button, which causes drastic problems for me, or well, did...problem solved now .

+1 is a way of saying I agree.

Felix the Cat wrote:How many people give orders on the mini-map anyways?

Anyone using dual screen (I did it quite a bit before I started using dual screens too).

Gota wrote:IMO it would be best To make it an option in the installer.

No, but it will be an option in the next version of the settings utility, so no more registry editing.

very_bad_soldier wrote:I think the other control scheme should be default.

Not going to happen. People should be encouraged to learn to play the game the right way. It isn't very hard to learn to use middle mouse to move the minimap (I remember getting the hang of it in a few games when this feature first came out).

Adridar wrote:I merely was stating the things which cause playing TA: Spring to be rather difficult, after playing the original TA for 6-7 Years

The TA to TA Spring transition isn't easy, I agree. It took me a week or so of playing for it to feel natural (after playing TA for a similar length of time). Let me tell you, though, as a longtime TA player and spring player, it's worth it. Spring is better than TA in so many ways that it's well worth putting a little effort in at the start to learn to use it the right way.

I think the anyoage people fell of having to press the middle button down its because its somewhat unconfortable. Like, using myself as example and assuming that most people do the same thing, keep the hand around the mouse while the indicator finger is on the left button and the middle finger is on the right. Thus, the whell is between the 2. To move the whell up or down from this positions is easy since I just need to move the left finger a bit to the up or right and then gently move it up or down... but this position is bad for pressing and takes a bit of strengh to do so, what gets anyoing if you press all the time... and bad mouse is not excuse because whells have to be hard to press or else there would be a lot of mis-presses then trying to roll then.

I think that rather than making a bad but user friendly interface, we should have more stuff explaining how it works :)

And Adridar dont fell yourself guilty for some flamewar just because you started the thread. Having epic discussions originate from simple threads is common here, and they often get quite flamely :) Discussions (rational ones) should exist tough, and not be supressed.

manored wrote: I think that rather than making a bad but user friendly interface, we should have more stuff explaining how it works :)

And Adridar dont fell yourself guilty for some flamewar just because you started the thread. Having epic discussions originate from simple threads is common here, and they often get quite flamely :) Discussions (rational ones) should exist tough, and not be supressed.

+1

Very good point. If people dont bring up issues like this, then no one will know there is a potential problem. Some of us will make our way here to the forums and find out how to fix it to the way we like it thanks to the original post. But there are other people that wont bother to go through the trouble and will just uninstall the game instead. That's the reason a lot of successful games have a simple user interface turned on by default, and a more advanced interface option than advanced players can enable. Beginners can install and press 'go', and advanced users can still have their advanced settings. :)

manored wrote:I think the anyoage people fell of having to press the middle button down its because its somewhat unconfortable.

Not sure, but I've turned off mid-click on every mouse I've owned because it is ridiculously easy to accidentally click it while trying to scroll the wheel. Maybe I just have big hands.

Erom wrote:Maybe I just have big hands.

Or maybe you're clumsy. I have an earlier version of this mouse. It strikes a perfect balance between middle mouse button clickability and still avoiding missclicks.

Most mice I've had has had both easy to click scroll wheels and a very low amount of misclicks. Except the one I have now, which is gradually becoming worse with misclicks. I've already ordered a new mouse (the one LordMatt mentioned, actually) because of this, as standard input functionality not working as it should is unacceptable.

LordMatt wrote:

Erom wrote:Maybe I just have big hands.

Or maybe you're clumsy. I have an earlier version of this mouse. It strikes a perfect balance between middle mouse button clickability and still avoiding missclicks.

I do the same thing, maybe im clumsy too? Or maybe the average computer user doesnt feel the need for an 8 button gaming grade mouse. If you're designing the game only for the elite gamer, then you'll end up with a very small community. Because if the instructions include "must purchase a new mouse in order to play this game", that wont sit well with the masses.

Pipes wrote:

LordMatt wrote:

Erom wrote:Maybe I just have big hands.

Or maybe you're clumsy. I have an earlier version of this mouse. It strikes a perfect balance between middle mouse button clickability and still avoiding missclicks.

I do the same thing, maybe im clumsy too? Or maybe the average computer user doesnt feel the need for an 8 button gaming grade mouse. If you're designing the game only for the elite gamer, then you'll end up with a very small community. Because if the instructions include "must purchase a new mouse in order to play this game", that wont sit well with the masses.

Uh, we're not talking about elite gaming mice here, all mice has three buttons, and all mice are designed around making the scroll wheel both easily clickable and not prone to misclicks.

You're arguing against yourself. You just said a couple posts up that your own mouse is prone to misclicks and you're replacing it with an 8 button gaming mouse.

I guess all the other people that complained about not liking to use the scroll wheel as mouse3 are just making it up for the fun of it as well.

I have no idea what people are talking about when they complain about scrollwheel mouse3/having to buy new mouse for spring/etc. My *does currency conversion* $<10 (USD) generic no name mouse does fine for Spring and general use, including middle clicking. Anyone who thinks that pressing Ctrl + leftclick to open a new tab in Firefox is fun can go jump off a cliff. It's not even like mouse3 is used that often in Spring.

I can't even remember the last time I saw a mouse for sale that didn't have a scrollwheel.




That said, +1 to making it modifiable in settings.

Pipes wrote:You're arguing against yourself. You just said a couple posts up that your own mouse is prone to misclicks and you're replacing it with an 8 button gaming mouse.

I said it was prone to misclick because of the damage time had done to it, when it was new it worked perfectly. That I'm getting a new gaming mouse to replace it just has to do with me being a gamer. It has nothing to do with a gaming mouse being required for a proper middle click button, because it isn't.

Honestly, I use ctrl-T to open a new tab, and didn't know about the middle mouse thing until you just mentioned it . Honestly, having this changeable is settings solves the issue, we're getting into Holy War territory on mouse use here.

Try playing in window mode, you'll get used to pressing middle mouse button pretty fast.

ZellSF wrote:Why would an inferior interface be on by default just because everyone's too used to playing StarCraft?

How is MMB-map-move superior to LMB or RMB-map-move?

I find the ability to issue orders on the minimap is not worth the interruption in my normal clickflow in order to move the minimap, as the number of time I might do the former per game is around 2, while the latter... around 20+.

The minimap is an important and useful tool. If you are not giving commands with the minimap, then you should learn. Even if your minimap is fleashit sized, you should use it. If you have 2 screens, one half of your screen should be the minimap.

If you are not using your middle button, then you should learn.

If you use ctrl+click for firefox tabs, then please jump of a cliff. Fabulous plan.

Likewise if you do not use firefox.

Likewise if you do not use Spring.

Middle button is superior because left and right buttons are for giving orders, even on the map.

How is MMB-map-move superior to LMB or RMB-map-move?

Because it allows you to use the minimap for orders. For having that ability, you lose nothing, except it takes some time getting used to.

I find the ability to issue orders on the minimap is not worth the interruption in my normal clickflow in order to move the minimap

Which is why there is an option to turn on the inferior interface. I really don't see why clicking a button your finger should be already over is a disturbance, anyway.

+1

ZellSF wrote:

How is MMB-map-move superior to LMB or RMB-map-move?

Because it allows you to use the minimap for orders. For having that ability, you lose nothing, except it takes some time getting used to.

Which, as I've already said, I use very infrequently if at all.

I find the ability to issue orders on the minimap is not worth the interruption in my normal clickflow in order to move the minimap

Which is why there is an option to turn on the inferior interface. I really don't see why clicking a button your finger should be already over is a disturbance, anyway.

1) There isn't an "option" to turn on the intuitive interface, you have to go muck about in the registry, which is a pain.

2) I personally find having 3 fingers on the mouse uncomfortable, so it requires moving a finger to click the middle mouse button.

3) You're welcome to cut out the condescending attitude whenever is convenient for you. It's not adding anything to the discussion. Back up your assertions with facts, not a superiority complex.

Tribulex wrote:Likewise if you do not use firefox.

I use Opera, every time I've used Firefox it's been at best equivalent to IE and at worst buggy. Oh, and every version of Firefox I've ever used leaked memory (ie. memory usage increased steadily increased over the lifetime of the application) which is bad since I like to have my browser open constantly (and not have it use 250MB of RAM with 6 tabs open). I like Opera's interface and look and feel better than Firefox's, and especially like the built-in capacity to remember what tabs I have open every time I close it, which last time I checked Firefox doesn't have unless you close it via killing the process (so the "restore session" dialog comes up), and I never successfully found the rumored plugin to add the tab-remembering functionality, only some ultra-shitty PermaTab plugin that did almost but not quite the same thing in a very annoying way.

IOW I find Opera superior to Firefox for my needs, and so I use it.

Additionally 99% of the time I'm on a laptop touchpad so I've never gotten into the habit of using middle mouse click to open a new tab.

KingRaptor wrote:My *does currency conversion* $<10 (USD) generic no name mouse does fine for Spring and general use, including middle clicking.

That's still infinity times more than you paid for Spring itself tho...