Spring RTS Engine

KDR_11k wrote:

SwiftSpear wrote:How can you rationalize making 5.4 version releases before and not figuring out that certain units need to be tweaked so massively as to double and half massively gameplay relevant statistics such as DPS and HP?

Version envy. Or possibly the CvC school of balancing.

Which reminds me I need to give at least some of the heavies a price hike, you can spam Triremes like noone's business in 0.4...

i'm pretty much the best cvc player and heavies are worthless, especially the trieme. usually you just spam drones.

Ishach wrote:
The HP buff is going closer in direction to making the unit what it ideally should be than a speed buff would.

yea but it went in that direction a couple thousand miles

tombom wrote:i'm pretty much the best cvc player and heavies are worthless, especially the trieme. usually you just spam drones.

Triremes cost 2500M, 16 secs to make in a big fac. Laserdrones cost 80M but get raped by the dozen by a single Trireme (in fact everything gets raped by a Trireme that managed to get in range, add Heavy Weapons Deployment and you get twice the rape for the same price). Missile drones are 500M a piece and you need quite a large number of them to get rid of a Trireme quickly. Also don't forget the Trireme's selfdestruct in case it really IS overwhelmed. They're slow but they're creeping doom.

Anyway, we're getting OT...

what is cvc

Does the jugg's gun still suck? Because to me, that was always the funny part - you have a nigh-invincible unit that you can completely ignore.

And yeah, most important = fix bladewing patrol. Just give its gun a 360-degree firing arc and a little longer range - that should solve most of it's problems.

Pxtl wrote:Does the jugg's gun still suck? Because to me, that was always the funny part - you have a nigh-invincible unit that you can completely ignore.

Yeah, it still sucks. It has four weak LLT guns and a weak d-gun like plasma spread weapon. In its current state its best used as a scout

Relative wrote:

Pxtl wrote:Does the jugg's gun still suck? Because to me, that was always the funny part - you have a nigh-invincible unit that you can completely ignore.

Yeah, it still sucks. It has four weak LLT guns and a weak d-gun like plasma spread weapon. In its current state its best used as a scout

Ah, I haven't seen one actually used in-game since before the LLTs were added.

Well, uhm - thanks for the new release, but tell Day that ye had gold last release, in terms of balance. I could go any tech tree, aside from sea - do any build, and still with sufficient forethought play well.

Don't think 5.5 changes are really that bad as most people seem to think...
In 5.4, Popups needed 2-3 hits to kill a single flash/gater, Liche was much too cost-inefficient compared to bombers, Banisher did 1/5 of Penetrator DPS while costing almost as much (ok, they use no E, have tracking and can shoot at air, but still...), and buff for Merl/Diplo, Razorback and Bantha where much needed imho...and the Juggernaut, keeping it's cost, weaponry and speed, an extreme HP boost was simply necessary imo (although 250-300k might have been enough perhaps, but haven't seen/tried it ingame yet). Also, against Juggernaut:
20 Snipers/Penetrators -> 10 shots, 10 Krows: ~2 minutes fire... considering Jugg's low speed, weaponry and "roflz i maek t3"-cost, might not be too unfair...also they don't blow up half a base when dying (like Krog). Since they don't have Krog crush, can they be stopped by Dragonteeth? Gotta try out...however, it might be appropriate to add them to the anti-Krogoth special damage category. Right now poor Kroggie gets all the Sniper and Doomsday pwnage while Juggie with ~3 times the HP laughs at him :D

Personal thoughts about stuff i think is still needed:

-Corvettes massive E shooting cost has to go imho, since hovers don't have any and corvettes are also expected to be hover counter they might often be needed in larger groups by a sea player

-Fatboys's gun might need a little buff, i have seen it needing 3 hits to kill a t1 tank ingame which, considering its low RoF and plasma weapon related inaccuracy, might be a little much (2 hits would be fine imho)

-Zeus' gun needs better accuracy especially against moving stuff imho, maybe very slight DPS buff wouldn't hurt too

-Rapiers could use a little better accuracy

-Arm Marauder needs a serious buff imho (especially since other t3 has been buffed), it sucks ass

-Maybe something with LRMT, a little better AoE, RoF or whatever (since they can be easily countered by single peepers)...

-Maybe minimal accuracy buff for Catapult

-EMP-resistance for Bantha (don't know if it has been done already...)

-Experimental idea: give minelayers ability to reclaim, would fit their secondary "clear stuff" job and vehicle guys could have a "quick mobile front reclaimer" too (kbot guys have quick necros, air guys have conplanes), maybe balance the reclaim ability with a slight cost increase for the minelayer (they can be quite effective anyways)

Klopper wrote:-Zeus' gun needs better accuracy especially against moving stuff imho, maybe very slight DPS buff wouldn't hurt too

Lightning has a hardcoded inaccuracy with a comment stating "should make them less effective vs. airplanes" next to it. It'll be fixed in the next release if my patch goes in but until then you can't change the accuracy of the weapon at all.

Hmm...but didn't Panthers get an accuracy buff in a recent BA version too? At least i think a changelog said so...

Maybe the tags were changed but the engine doesn't give a crap about it. Believe me, I fixed that not too long ago.

Merl/Diplomat and Bantha buffs are good I suppose.

My beef with the changes:

-Popups certainly could use a DPS buff sure, but 100% increase is patently ridiculous. They already are resistant to artillery when popped down and have longer range than HLTs. Thanks for making "lawl I porc" a more attractive option.
-Liche and Razorback buffs are dull and uncreative, and probably too much in the case of the Liche
-Krow buff fixes absolutely none the fundamental problems with the unit. Ohh, now it takes twice as long to waste your opponent's 4798 metal (the adjusted cost is a whopping 5893)

And Juggernaut...I don't even want to talk about Juggernaut.
114 shots from Penetrator / 80 from Sharpshooter, both of which are specialized anti-heavyunit, just to take down one jugg?
In tests, a jugg supported by 4 Penetrators and 10 Reapers can breach a defense line consisting of two Doomsday Machines, two Annihilators, 12 Vipers and 10 Sharpshooters, and it doesn't die to boot *_*

and how far can a jugg move when you have its cost in sharpshooters shooting it ^^

The juggernaut is frickin insane, esp considering the general neglect shown to other t3 units. However, its really just the same situation as a krog- d-gun it, or hit it with snipers. Hell its not emp resistant- emp it. Only major difference is jug is cheaper, but its so slow that it takes forever to arrive on the frontline. IMO if you havent won by the time he starts spamming juggs, then the game shoulda been over ages ago.

What no emp resistance :O
lol then i'd call it balanced...stop with Bladewings, Stilettos or emp silos...or spies...or detonate twilight next to it :D

I'm not absolutely certain but isn't the paralysis effect only given when the stun wepaons have done more "damage" than the unit has hitpoints? I think when I was balancing the KP DoS I had to readjust the damage every time I changed the Worm's HP.

KingRaptor wrote:In tests, a jugg supported by 4 Penetrators and 10 Reapers can breach a defense line consisting of two Doomsday Machines, two Annihilators, 12 Vipers and 10 Sharpshooters, and it doesn't die to boot *_*

You know the Juggernaut is T3 right?

honourary T4

meh nm ignore this