Spring RTS Engine

Licho wrote:Also supports poll, stats, and 2 versions - stable and latest.
Stable should be used for tourneys or if latest becomes broken etc.
It will be released only once per week or so.

No offence but it looks as ugly as the lobby.

There's some great new features in this version as always (when do you guys get the time to do all this stuff?!) and my only gripe is just I don't personally like the new stomped-flat techtree.

Of course I realise that's largely just personal preference - but perhaps a mutator (mod option) for traditional/new techtree switching is in order? Don't know how possible that is cos I'm not so familiar with the limitations of the engine and/or lua, but if you could do it that'd be all kinds of awesome and give a bit more playstyle choice, which can only be a good thing

Soulless1 wrote:but perhaps a mutator (mod option) for traditional/new techtree switching is in order?

Its also part of a rebalance, or 'flat balancing' (As opposed to tier balancing).

Everything will be balanced equally with everything else, rather than having a jump mid way through the game to a totally different set of units that are 'just better' that make the first set redundant. Which units are 'better' (for-cost of course, 't2' will still be a heavier weight class) will be situational.

'But then nobody will use t2 since the fac is so expensive, if its not necessarily better!' you say? Thats the whole point, it wont be so expensive anymore, and it wont require you to have a t1 fac first. It wont be a matter of 'Spending a large amount of resources to unlock more efficient units'- the 'tech up' dynamic will be handled entirely through the economy (IE, a more cost-efficient economy, rather than more cost-efficient units).

Will we keep the flat tech tree thing? Our goal is to flatten the tech tree balance-wise, but the actual logistics of what can build what depends on other issues. I think it may prove, in the long run, that the build lists just become too bloated or confusing this way and we'll have to artificially cut them up a little.

At first I was skeptical about this idea but over time I started to understand the reasoning and benefits to it. But there's that big problem:

Endless complaints from one Otherside have brought to our attention that nubs are not understanding the new tech tree. The limitations of building large things are removed but they still require econ as you said.

I believe this whole problem stems from the difficulty of playing TA in the first place. When you play any other mainstream RTS, if you don't have the funds to build something right then and there, you can't. Try to build a giant unit that costs 10 times what you have in your wallet and - "You've not enough minerals, dumbass." With spring/ta, you don't need the cash, just tell them you're good for it. They'll lease it out. This was bad enough before, now every nub tries to build a T2 from the start and I absolutely don't blame them because they don't know.

Luckily CA already has in place a great system of tips and hints. But this is one "tip" that needs to be in your face from the start.

Good point. XTA was even worse with its "comm builds L2 plants". There were many times I tried to build a plant and didnt' realize I'd clicked on the wrong one until I checked back on the comm and found out "hey, why he still at 15% done?"

I mean, with the unlocking structure of most RTS games you don't even _see_ the expensive stuff until you've built most of the basic buildings.

Oh come on, the T2 labs look very different from the T1 labs. Do you ever make solars on mex spots or try to build an llt farm for E?

well I can see how it might happen with air and sea labs, they're pretty much the same at T2.

Machiosabre wrote:well I can see how it might happen with air and sea labs, they're pretty much the same at T2.

Precisely, it was the air and sea labs that I tripped up on. And of course, there's that noobish moment when you first started playing where you make that terrible game-ending "EXTRACTOR not MAKER" mistake at the beginning of the game, which you recognize just in time for the scout rush to grind your base into paste.

Pxtl wrote:Good point. XTA was even worse with its "comm builds L2 plants". There were many times I tried to build a plant and didnt' realize I'd clicked on the wrong one until I checked back on the comm and found out "hey, why he still at 15% done?"
buildings.

Your mistake you were stupid, learn to play before you bash it. At least you were honest. Next time do not scroll to page two. Ahh well, keep bashing xta plz.

KDR_11k wrote:Oh come on, the T2 labs look very different from the T1 labs. Do you ever make solars on mex spots or try to build an llt farm for E?

Once I clicked the wrong thing and built a farm of metal storages when I wanted adv solars... >_>

But yeah. Apparently double-checking the tooltip if you're not sure is too hard...

I've already proposed the idea of an economic help popup that tells you when you are stalling and how to fix it, when you are building something you wont be able to finish, etc, so noobs can learn the economy a little easier.

Someone just needs to make it.

It's worth noting that if you click on a building in the menu, drag a little, then release, you can end up selecting the wrong building anyway. This might be to do with lag, or my old-ish machine. EDIT: this is not a "fix plz" post, alright? Just mentioning it since people were talking about accidental build orders.

Too bad the commander can't be limited to L1 off the start and just morph when L2 is achieved - morph that is into a commander that can build L2 at that point. Would save the explanation to beginners.

Saktoth wrote:I've already proposed the idea of an economic help popup that tells you when you are stalling and how to fix it, when you are building something you wont be able to finish, etc, so noobs can learn the economy a little easier.

Someone just needs to make it.

MadRat wrote:Too bad the commander can't be limited to L1 off the start and just morph when L2 is achieved - morph that is into a commander that can build L2 at that point. Would save the explanation to beginners.

CA interface could add one more button that toggles between beginner mode and advanced mode. Beginner mode would popup all the tips and give a limited commander who only builds T1. Might be a little extreme?

Just downloaded the mod, looks pretty cool but after a few minutes or sometimes less than 1 minute the game crashes. Does anyone have a solution for this problem? I'm working in ubuntu and the lobby has been updated today.

MadRat wrote:Too bad the commander can't be limited to L1 off the start and just morph when L2 is achieved - morph that is into a commander that can build L2 at that point. Would save the explanation to beginners.

'Where is t2?'

People already ask this about how to make t2 cons, but yeah.

Anyway we'll figure this out. Ideally id just like nested build menus (On the first page it has common buildings, llt, mex, solar, etc then it has buttons for 'facs' one for 'military buildings' one for 'economic buildings' etc).

I like the morphing, it gives t2 con some nice time penalty.
People will learn that quickly ..

And I repeat once more - you cannot make nested menus - it woudlnt work without lua..

Make the T1 lab morphable into a T2 lab, and make the T2 lab capable of producing T1 units

Really, the "morph comm to get T2 units" makes perfect sense to me - it exists in newer versions of XTA, and it's consistent with every other upgrade-oriented RTS. Look at WarCraft 2 for example or the Zerg in StarCraft. It's a hell of a lot more conventional than upgrading your cons.

Well in other games the "comm" is replaceable...