Spring RTS Engine

Pressure Line wrote:

el_matarife wrote:You know there's another option: You could move them to T1 then create an "Information Warfare" kbot / vehicle that does both radar & jamming, with a large LOS at T2 as a replacement. Also, you could throw on seismic to enhance the "value" even more, if that's possible.

one thing to note, iirc radar jammers jam ALL radar, even friendly radars...

Yes.

[19:41:43] <[WarC]NOiZE> U guys ever used the radar bot/veh ?
[19:45:00] <[WarC]NOiZE> im considering moving them to level 1, and maybe shorten their radar range a bit

I dont know how this would behave in maps like comet where radar/scouting is crucial. Instead of spamming jeffies you could just get a scout veh somewhere around the enemy base and see where his flash are going ~~

Perhaps only the kbot? I mean, the vehicles already have the SAM trucks and Jeffies for recon, plus the beefy mobile radar and spotting ability is crucial in the l2 vehicle artillery game. Kbots (especially Core) don't. Give it 680 sight range (same as a tower) so you can use it for spotting in-combat slightly better than the SAM truck.

Of course, at that point keeping an intelligent price curve between static L1 radar, mobile L1 radar, and mobile L2 radar would be tricky.

Mobile radar on kbots would also give another reason to bring in Kbots as a second factory.

Of course, that would make it redundant with the radar on the Flea, which is, imho, a misfeature. Give the Flea all-terrain if you want to give it a special power - that's the power it had in OTA. Of course, at this point we're moving a lot of stuff around and ruining stability.

I really don't like the idea of mobile jammers at L1, but that's just me.

And yeah, I worry about how offensive radars will affect the early-game rush.

Having a mobile jammer and radar near an army is always nice, especially for snipers and for Core vehicles in general (since they don't have any cloakable ones they could use as spotters). I would very much like to see them be faster for being able to keep up with a moving army better, but that could make them op i guess.
Personally i'd prefer them to stay at t2 because t1 labs often get eaten for t2 and t2 needs the mobile radar/jammer more than t1 imho.

Pressure Line wrote: one thing to note, iirc radar jammers jam ALL radar, even friendly radars...

Yeah, that's part of the reason for the long LOS radius I suggested. Sure, it helps with artillery spotting but if it is big enough to cover the whole jamming radius you won't have any "blind spots" to deal with as well.

This is kinda the problem you had with Resbots and Juno- moving them down made them useful.

At t2 you tend to just want to end the game with brute force and economy, something spammy and powerful, less nuanced and micro-intensive.

Its also the reason you dont see a lot of use of things like Commandos, cloaking units, EMP units, Combat Engies (Used as mobile factories to actually make armies behind enemy lines etc, i mean). They get used, but less than they might.

That being said, we moved some radar units to t1 in CA. They're still rarely used. Ive considered combining them into a single 'information warfare' unit, as was mentioned here. The self-jam thing is no problem- once aunit is under the jammer its in LoS and any cloaked unit getting close will be spotted by the radar before its under the jammer anyway.

Of course, that would make it redundant with the radar on the Flea, which is, imho, a misfeature. Give the Flea all-terrain if you want to give it a special power - that's the power it had in OTA. Of course, at this point we're moving a lot of stuff around and ruining stability.

AT fleas can be fucking crazy. The CA flea is AT, people were spamming it along cliffs, it was brutal on Charlie in The Hills. Even with a line of LLTS facing every single cliff, it takes one flea to get through and there goes all your wind. We had to nerf it (yes, lol, nerf flea!).

In the end though being able to park it up cliffs, scouting/raiding inaccessible areas, etc... it makes the unit more interesting (But thats more a CA thing to do. ).

Saktoth wrote:In the end though it makes the unit more interesting, being able to park it up hills, on cliffs, scouting inaccessible areas, etc... (But thats more a CA thing to do. ).

But BA can do as it pleases

LordMatt wrote:

Saktoth wrote:In the end though it makes the unit more interesting, being able to park it up hills, on cliffs, scouting inaccessible areas, etc... (But thats more a CA thing to do. ).

But BA can do as it pleases

CA is about make more interesting, BA is about make more balanced.

Saktoth wrote:

LordMatt wrote:

Saktoth wrote:In the end though it makes the unit more interesting, being able to park it up hills, on cliffs, scouting inaccessible areas, etc... (But thats more a CA thing to do. ).

But BA can do as it pleases

CA is about make more interesting, BA is about make more balanced.

OMG WHERES OTHERSIDE SOMEONE SAID CA ISN'T AS BALANCED AS BA

Saktoth wrote:That being said, we moved some radar units to t1 in CA. They're still rarely used.

I always build them in combination with arty, and also as mobile eyes.

I would agree in combining radadar + jammer in 1 unit and put it in T1. Necros at T1 was very good call as they actually get used somtimes.

Things that bother me atm:
1. subs are quite useless as it is allmost allways better to spam their much more usefull counters (destroyer and crusiser). T1 subs lack faster torpedos or tracking, T3 sub still dont cut it against crusiser.

2. gimp has op torpedos

3. cons ships bug (i know its engine bug but more accele would not hurt)

4. brawler/rapier are rarely seen as their death damage is too high and they chain too much. This was set by caydr when noobos cried gunships are op. Perhaps reduce this damage? (seaplane gunships dont have it and are/were fine)

5. diplomat are pure crap.. would it be too much if they got some tracking? Not super tracking to catch flea but some so they could hunt stumpy for instance.

Game plays superfine otherwise

ginekolog wrote: 5. diplomat are pure crap.. would it be too much if they got some tracking? Not super tracking to catch flea but some so they could hunt stumpy for instance.

Game plays superfine otherwise

Diplomat and Merl are primarily anti-static.

neddiedrow wrote:

ginekolog wrote: 5. diplomat are pure crap.. would it be too much if they got some tracking? Not super tracking to catch flea but some so they could hunt stumpy for instance.

Game plays superfine otherwise

Diplomat and Merl are primarily anti-static.

They are suposed to be but they just dont cut it with this shity dps and no splash. And big cost. What do other think?

EDIT: I have idea, perhaps reduce ther rof even more but boost damage to 3000 so they can actually kills some static that has 5 nanos behind. Even 30 sec reload or more would be ok if it actually killed something then. :idea:

ginekolog wrote:They are suposed to be but they just dont cut it with this shity dps and no splash. And big cost. What do other think?

Imo their downside always was their totally low speed - that's why I made them faster and a bit cheaper in MA. Works fine that way imo as they pwn every kind of static defense but imo were of little use in BA because it just took too long until they arrived and died too fast because of low HP which lead to an often wasted amount of ressources on them...

ginekolog wrote:I would agree in combining radadar + jammer in 1 unit and put it in T1. Necros at T1 was very good call as they actually get used somtimes.

IMO they should stay as separate units at T1, as they have different purposes.

ginekolog wrote: Things that bother me atm:
1. subs are quite useless as it is allmost allways better to spam their much more usefull counters (destroyer and crusiser). T1 subs lack faster torpedos or tracking, T3 sub still dont cut it against crusiser.

Noize and I were discussing this we agreed that the roy was a bit OP (costs will be increased a little) and the sub was a bit fail (weapon will be improved).

ginekolog wrote: 2. gimp has op torpedos

6.21 --> 6.3 wrote:GIMP torpedo reloadtime increased

ginekolog wrote: 3. cons ships bug (i know its engine bug but more accele would not hurt)

Noize decided not to fix this because it will become a bug again when the engine is fixed (fix already in SVN).

ginekolog wrote: 4. brawler/rapier are rarely seen as their death damage is too high and they chain too much. This was set by caydr when noobos cried gunships are op. Perhaps reduce this damage? (seaplane gunships dont have it and are/were fine)

I see them used a fair amount, but personally prefer adv bombers and lichos. IMO they are primarily anti-unit, whereas adv bombers and lichos are anti structure.

ginekolog wrote: 5. diplomat are pure crap.. would it be too much if they got some tracking? Not super tracking to catch flea but some so they could hunt stumpy for instance.

I found merls to be surprisingly good vs popup porc (though I had several and I shot their nanos first). It was very helpful to have an air plant making constant peepers over the porc so I could choose targets.

Lugers are cheap. If elevations allow for it, bring one or two along to help take out the nanotowers.

Krogoth = suck. Bantha = not suck. Maek Krogoth = not suck plz.

Fun fact: 2 Banthas cost < 1 Krogoth. 2 Banthas long-range firepower > 1 Krogoth. 1 Bantha maneuverability > 1 Krogoth. 2 Bantha health > 1 Krogoth (because we all know about special damages which do 7,500-10,000 to Krogoths and Gorgs and fuck all to Banthas, yes?). 1 Bantha odds of getting D-gunned < 1 Krogoth. Unfuck teh Krogoth!

Stop with your maths.
You dont balance a mod using math.retard.
jeez....

Hmm diplomats do 1500 dmg a shot..
so bring 2 and you own an open viper in 1 go... and a closed one in 2 gos (4 missles) I did had LOS though.

Without LOS i killed a viper with 10 missles and on viper with 7 missles.

So getting the exact position is trival.


I think their fine....

Well, BasiC, Krog DOES suck, but by design.

Krog is only useful for self-d nuke, 2x bantha don't have the same porc penetration power.