Spring RTS Engine

is there a way to make it so that AA never attacks ground unless you specifically order it to attack a ground unit?

Because I'm just thinking of a squad on the run being forced to use everything they got. AA is not suited to kill ground units, but why the hell can't they try it there isn't anything else to do it?

mmm... you can choose from BadTargetCategory or NoTargetCategory if you want (Make sure your NoChaseCategory is set as well, but in AA they already should be)

It's possible, but I don't see a reason.

I play Core alot, but when you look at their lv2 I sometimes wonder why I bother. The advanced vehicles are nice. But there isn't a single decent unit in the advanced kbot lab.

Morty - absolutely dreaful. Surprising when they were so good in OTA.
Can - slow and shortranged, not much armour.. pretty worthless.
Sumo - powerful but incredibly slow, takes ages to build as well.
Pyro - ok at the early stages but doesn't do much damage to moving units.

With Arm you have the sublime Fido and the punchy Maverick. Both excellent units. I though the idea of Core was that because you had to stick with AK's and Instigators at Lv1 you got to have some very powerful toys at Lv2. This isn't happening.

I just stick to masses and masses of Storms and Instigators rather than teching up too early. But that's not an option on the more confined maps. You need something with good armour and power to break the deadlock.

Well, scince OTA it is my train of thoughts that Core has power in its vehicles at all levels and Arm has its power in the bots.

So, if i want powerful level 2 with core i dont use bots, but vehicles.

Air and water are really the same for both.

cans are pretty useful if you mix them in with other units.

if you mix up sumo's/morty's/dom's with cans they seem to do a bit of damage

molloy...O,o
the Can is lethal. The pyro both fast and powerful with a fair chunk of health. Morties make great support units.
Mavericks are deadly but have low HP and low range, the Fido is sublime??? its all terrain i guess, it has a lot of HP and a midranged weak weapon making it good for nothing in particular 'cept taking out enemy skirmishers.
Besides have you seen CORE vehicles? Banishers, Goliaths, Tremors (will be all but useless next vsn >,<). Its scary

Molloy wrote:I play Core alot, but when you look at their lv2 I sometimes wonder why I bother. The advanced vehicles are nice. But there isn't a single decent unit in the advanced kbot lab.

Morty - absolutely dreaful. Surprising when they were so good in OTA.
Can - slow and shortranged, not much armour.. pretty worthless.
Sumo - powerful but incredibly slow, takes ages to build as well.
Pyro - ok at the early stages but doesn't do much damage to moving units.

With Arm you have the sublime Fido and the punchy Maverick. Both excellent units. I though the idea of Core was that because you had to stick with AK's and Instigators at Lv1 you got to have some very powerful toys at Lv2. This isn't happening.

I just stick to masses and masses of Storms and Instigators rather than teching up too early. But that's not an option on the more confined maps. You need something with good armour and power to break the deadlock.

Termites are good, I always thought Fidos were pretty crap com-pared to Mavs and Recluse.

Oh yeah, Recluse are great, just takes a bit of micro to do a lot of damage.

OK, having just played a water map I think I can see a place for a new unit, a floating LLT.
The thing is it's too easy (especially on low resource water maps) to be rushed by a group of Skeeters (or their counterpart).
These units are fast enough to avoid being torpedoed to death and take out you're early infrastructure. OK, so maybe you could aim for a wide coverage of torpedo launchers but they're relatively expensive for the early economy, especially given that most water maps have low numbers of metal spots.
The best answer I could come up with was quite literally floating LLT's, the entire unit, just given a floating base and made buildable by the comm and other sea units.

Mortys actually, metal for metal, if both sets of units are microed... win vs fidos, cans, sumos, recluse, mavs, razorback, fatboy, all level1 kbots, pyro... Im sure theres more, I cant remember, me and drex tested this a while back...

Core L2 can go toe-to-toe with Arm L2 any day of the week...

One thing i see horribly underutilized is the Core Scuttle; with jamming, those bastards can do virtually infinite damage to an enemy's line; two Scuttles one right after another can demolish an entire defensive line, no matter what the hell its made out of.

Might I suggest making Scuttles a bit faster so that you dont have to waati fro them to cross the whole map


Scuttles also work GREAT against all mechs btw...

Also, the Sumo is probably my favorite L2 kbot; its storng, got long laser, got VERY high HP; can wipe out entire swarms of units on any level on its own, and a few Sumos can wipe out a lot of mechs etc...


Arm counter fatboy just sucks...

it's all in the situation, too, there's a lot of places that vehicles cant reach (hills for example) so i often find Cans and Sumos and Morties and Dominators HUEGLY useful in climbing up some of those steeper gradients and charging a position.


And never send Cans on their own; always support with some Pyrosor something, or even L1 Kbots... I've demolished 20-30 L1 units with four-five cans and a few units of L1 for damage absoprtion...


And the Pyro absolutely kicks ass; with its blinding speed, a squadron of Pyros can literally run past most defensive lines and hjust rape the base behind it; they're far better than Zippers IMHO because of their oinsane damage capability.


you need to adapt, Molloy, mate


BUt yeah, use them damn scuttles! Get some fusions up specifically to cloak them; they work, trust me X-D

Morties for one, at least, I've never seen/heard a stop for the praise of this unit except for you, Molloy. I thought they were pretty fair units, but i know at least one guy who practically thinks they're the only thing you need to build.

Fatboys are sick if you use them correctly. A single fatboy can compleatly deny an opponent any damage on ever the most massive L1 rush. They aren't an L2 counter though.

The morty is one of the few units that should be left like they are and probably never changed again. They are balanced! same with pyros and most core lvl2 kbots. Lets concentrate on the ones that do need balancing like ships, adv gunships,flashes, etc...


Caydr, theres a couple of much needed changes for guardians/punishers could you please just make guardians high traj only? So many people dont know about it and use it on low to bombard bases, and thats like 80% of the people i play! Plus it really is useless on low anyway, the ROF or damage would have to be 2x for it to be even useful against units, and if theyre moving they miss anyways! Sure, its a last resort thing but it sucks so much i rather put a llt next to it. Heres my proposed changes:

-Dont reduce their range this version
-Make them high traj only or make them useful on low (sure they might kill a peewee but for their cost they suck in low traj)
-Decrease the ROF on high traj by 10-20% so that the first shot has landed before firing the second one. It takes some microing burden away from players as it wont be firing at dead targets. You dont even have to increase damage since it wont waste as many shots anymore.

Also i think freakers are a tad cheap since they are so good. Maybe a 10-20% cost increase would be in order, but thats just because i find myself massing them every game!

I gotta say I really don't like the snipers

Krogoth, what ya talking about these Freakers and Guardians mate? Guardians work great on low traj, never found a problem to complain myself; decreasing Rate of Fire would just imbalance them and make them too weak.



IU wub snipers! they are so useful...

One unit I really see underutilized is the EMP spiders; they can deadly when proper micro and stuff...

PS, whoever called for a water LLT: There's already one availible, its called a Torpedo Launcher!

Yeah but it's so easy to zoom streight past it wtha couple of skeeters and hide round the back of the shipyard (it'll undoubtably be defending at this stage of the game), and torp launchers are just to expensive and slow to build to mass produce at that stage.

you know, i was once king of this mod...


http://taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4194

Owh and perhaps cloak costs of a commander standing still should be reduced a bit, it's 600 now. like 200 would be enough imo..

Also in current spring version cloakcosts are doubled so it shows as 1200 even Already sumbitted that to the Bug Tracker.

I boosted the speed of torp launchers quite a lot recently (not as in, with this new version, but a recent one that's already out). They should do good as a naval LLT if you try them out again.

However, don't forget that naval warfare is a whole different ballgame from ground combat. Just like in real life, you can't really expect static defenses alone to work as your defense. I mean, they're a good supplement for critical locations, but you don't see, for instance, the united states building torpedo launchers all around their shores. Water gives the ability to move massive amounts of equipment and firepower quickly and easily, giving the attacker a big advantage. You can't defend against ships with the same stuff you defend against land attacks with. I mean, can you imagine a M1A1 on the shore of some country trying to shoot down a battleship? Sure, it might get lucky and hit the thing, but the shell would bounce off! You could have a thousand tanks on the shore shooting at the thing, and every single one could hit, but to no effect. Then the battleship would fire once and wipe them all out.

Am I making any sense?