Spring RTS Engine

aks are still highly microable

PRO_rANDY wrote:aks are still highly microable

Yeah I dunno what you're talking about mat :S

Min3mat wrote:Since a recent nerf microing them against PW has been impossible

Lol, see yesterday's tournement final for microed AKs of death.

jellyman wrote:I claim that if we buff bombers

That's not a very good idea. They are already extremely powerful if you know how to use them properly. A SMALL buff for the banshees might be more appropriate.

If banshees get buffed Bladewings ought to as well...Something to make them more effective against gators and such, cause at the moment they take a few shots to even paralyse one, and they die pretty quickly to lasers

jellyman wrote:Because the argument has nothing to do with whether level 1 air is useful or not. Nothing at all. Its about the level 2 air. Brawlers. And that core missile shooting thing gunship. The raipier. And the current lack of incentive to build anti air earlier. errrr...... (yeah ok you can call me crazy now - because I definitely am)

Yes, I think you'll find it does. Most people don't build early AA because of the exact behaviour you mentioned - if someone goes air, most of the time they'll just throw out the L1 plant and then try to immediately jump to the L2 plant because of the perception that L1 air is useless. L1 air is not, in fact, useless, and buffing it would make it overpowered. Sure, you can't wipe out your opponent with it in a single pass, but five bombers aimed well will do a lot of damage.

They also don't build early AA because they think you need flak or Mercuries to defend against L2 air.

IOW, the L2 air "imbalance" is because a lot of people have never used air, and do not understand how it works or how vulnerable it is to even basic but well-placed AA. They just see the L2 gunships or bombers blowing stuff up and scream "NERF" because their Hammer swarm can't handle them. In a tight 1v1 game, going air is a big gamble, which can and should win you the game if your enemy's been investing so heavily into ground units that he forgets to build basic AA.

Now, if L1 air really does need a buff, I suggest this:

1) Small HP buff for L1 fighters and bombers. (5% at most)

2) Buff Banshees somehow.

3) Buff Bladewing paralyse rate, but not HP.

And I don't think AKs need a nerf, they just don't need a buff. They already significantly outclass Peewees, as the Peewee will never get a hit if the player controlling the AK has decent micro.

thats true
but what im saying is that the AK micro is NOT WORTH IT
vs another player
he can bait you, for less micro time and slaughter your AK unless you spend ALL your time watching that lone AK whilst your economy explodes
meh too sucky @ words.
let me paint you a picture

This all arose from PW range increase, yes? The range increase is by 4 units if I remember right. From 176 to 180, just because I'm neurotic and it looked neater. You will not even know it happened.

LordMatt wrote:

Caydr wrote:I've got a plan in place to put things right.

What's that?

I'm going to make them relate to each other and land units properly through the extensive testing process I put land units through but which I've never put these water units through. I'm going to make prices and effectiveness make sense when compared to similar units who are land-bound.

OMGZ, Somebody besides me HASN'T ever wondered what 4 units looked like...

I oughta take a picture to show somebody what 4 UNITS would do to a units range..

AND, just build 2 aks instead of microing one, DOH!

Yeah, that's another important thing to remember: AKs are cheaper than PWs, so you can build more of them and microing isn't as necessary.

IMO, banshees don't really need a buff. They already have the ideal combination of statistics to be the perfect early-game raider.

I think that, just like Spring, I'm going to do a "feature freeze" now. If I keep on adding more and more user requests, 2.2 is going to be in development forever.

Yeah, that's another important thing to remember: AKs are cheaper than PWs, so you can build more of them and microing isn't as necessary.

pretty much completely wrong
PW are more expensive
-> smaller groups
-> less micro

PW are more powerful and potent
-> less micro
-> you can afford to leave them alone

Also with small groups of PWs you don't HAVE to aviod LLTs like the plague, with small groups of AKs you do

AKs require more micro than PW, especially in a PW/AK faceoff
I mean come on i made this giant picture and everything >.>
Not saying its a bad thing, im just saying that the balance atm is about right.

But if the AKs do get that micro, the PWs are totally ineffective. Watch the last replay from yesterday's tourney. (rANDY v Bhaal)

PW and AK are fine IMO, I'm just trying to rationalize it a bit for people who don't share that opinion.

So what was the final decision about shield generators/repulsors?

Do you want them:
1) As-is
2) As-is, but with a smaller protection radius
3) Made into a repulsor (with real limitations and an on/off switch, both of which were impossible before)
4) Removed entirely
5) Removed entirely, with a 25% range reduction to berthas/vulcans (and equivs)

I'd support option 5. They'll be very useful in other mods, but for something based in the TA universe they don't really fit in.

3.

3, simply because repulsors look hawt ^^

5 anti porc

3 or 5.

!

3

4

Min3 good players can micro whilst doing other things. Multitask!