Spring RTS Engine

The only time I go Vehicles is in a chokepoint map like Altored Divide, like mentioned before, to stop porcing and to stop gunship defence.

i agree here, main problem with going veh first is that u allmost get 2 conbots for 1 conveh. Which can mean 2x expansion time!

Reduce cost of lvl1 con veh to similar with kbot and maybe reduce health but leave nano power. As for lvl2 con veh improve nanospeed and possbile increase close/open animation (better assisting, esspecially core)

they should just be slightly faster, have less HP and more buildpower, both lvl1 and 2 convehs

Comp1337 wrote:Imo the problem with vehs is the level 1 builder. Sure, its faster than a kbot and has more buildpower, but you can have more kbots, and can thus expand much more effectively. The fact that it has loads of hp isnt a incentive (sp?) to go vehs, because if i dont protect it it will die, if i do protect it it wont (not because of the hp..).
I say reduce the cost of the veh builder or increase the buildpower even more.

I'm not sure that even that would help. One of the main advantages of the L1 con Kbot over the L1 con vehicle is that the con Kbot is much more mobile than the con vehicle, as it can climb steeper slopes. This not only means it can build defences and radar on higher ground, but that it spends less time spinning around trying to find a path to places both can get to, and can get from Point A to Point B faster if there's a bump in the way.

Edit: I agree with Krog. Faster and more buildpower is the way to go.

Con veh shold have speed and little more health; con kbot should have high slope climbability and maybe a little beefier nano. IMHO.


I cannot remember the last time I went vehicle first in AA; the uselesness of the con veh relative to con kbot is reason why.

The cost of the con vehicle makes early expansion difficult too, dunno if thats been mentioned, its very hard to get just two cons out without stalling on e and metal.
I dont think the fact it cant get onto slopes is too much of an issue, depends how you like to play I suppose, lev1 vehicles pwn lev 1 bots and they have artillery to hit positions on hills made by kbot cons so that kinda makes up for their lack of climbing ability, thats the tradeoff between going bots and veh I guess.
But i agree, they need to be faster, a bit more manauverable and slightly cheaper imo

BigSteve wrote:I dont think the fact it cant get onto slopes is too much of an issue, depends how you like to play I suppose, lev1 vehicles pwn lev 1 bots and they have artillery to hit positions on hills made by kbot cons so that kinda makes up for their lack of climbing ability, thats the tradeoff between going bots and veh I guess.

Right, but it's another tradeoff that has to be accounted for. The con veh can't build high-up radars or defences, but if your enemy's gone KBots, they'll definitely be coming over the hills at you. I think the balance of the combat units is fine, it's just the cons that seem off. Yes?

Caydr wrote:Now, moving right along... I never got any response about Reaper vs Bulldog vs Goliath. How do these units stack up?

I haven't used them versus one another yet, but I am very happy with having the Reaper as Core. It provides a cheaper heavy tank unit in the early mid-game, before your economy can afford to crank out Goliaths in more than just onesies twosies.

Ok, thanks for the feedback, I'll give this some serious consideration. I think I've already come up with a few changes to help balance out the kbot/vehicle thing.

Egarwaen wrote:

BigSteve wrote:I dont think the fact it cant get onto slopes is too much of an issue, depends how you like to play I suppose, lev1 vehicles pwn lev 1 bots and they have artillery to hit positions on hills made by kbot cons so that kinda makes up for their lack of climbing ability, thats the tradeoff between going bots and veh I guess.

Right, but it's another tradeoff that has to be accounted for. The con veh can't build high-up radars or defences, but if your enemy's gone KBots, they'll definitely be coming over the hills at you. I think the balance of the combat units is fine, it's just the cons that seem off. Yes?

yuppypie (yes) ^^

part of the reason why kbot is more popular, is because of the plants costs:

corlab = 680 metal
corvp = 773 metal

and early game those 100 metal make a difference

also the E costs of vehicles is higher, thus you need a extra solar compared to kbots... so it costs you 200 more metal if you go veh, and early game that can mean the differance

I said this about 4-5 pages ago.

But did anyone listen? NOOOOooooo...

Plus the Con Veh is almost 100 metal more expensive. So that's 400 metal straight up for a plant, an extra solar, and two cons to expand with.

Egarwaen wrote:Plus the Con Veh is almost 100 metal more expensive. So that's 400 metal straight up for a plant, an extra solar, and two cons to expand with.

nah...

corcv = 154 metal
corck = 113 metal

NOiZE wrote:part of the reason why kbot is more popular, is because of the plants costs:

corlab = 680 metal
corvp = 773 metal

and early game those 100 metal make a difference

also the E costs of vehicles is higher, thus you need a extra solar compared to kbots... so it costs you 200 more metal if you go veh, and early game that can mean the differance

While this is true, the more powerful L1 combat units make it worth it. There's nothing like watching instigators rip peewees to shreds, not to mention how nasty a Jeffy rush can be. So imho, in the "initial rush" phase where that 200 metal really counts, the L1 plant is well balanced. It's the "L1 expansion phase" that gets the vehicle-player demolished because of the near-useless convehs.

Pxtl wrote:

NOiZE wrote:part of the reason why kbot is more popular, is because of the plants costs:

corlab = 680 metal
corvp = 773 metal

and early game those 100 metal make a difference

also the E costs of vehicles is higher, thus you need a extra solar compared to kbots... so it costs you 200 more metal if you go veh, and early game that can mean the differance

While this is true, the more powerful L1 combat units make it worth it. There's nothing like watching instigators rip peewees to shreds, not to mention how nasty a Jeffy rush can be. So imho, in the "initial rush" phase where that 200 metal really counts, the L1 plant is well balanced. It's the "L1 expansion phase" that gets the vehicle-player demolished because of the near-useless convehs.

Exactly, you have to choose, do i spent my last few hundreds of metal on con veh, so i can expand, or do i buy some raiding tools... While when you got Kbot, you can do BOTH!

heh, I go Kbots on hilly maps, And Vehs on flat ones. convehs are not "next to useless" as everyone keeps saying. They are better than Kbots, have more hp/cost (If i remeber correctly) and are slightly faster.

Molloy wrote:Suggestion: put Fusion Reactors and MMM's on the same page of the build menu. I tend to build fusion, mmm, fusion, mmm and it's annoying having to flick through 3 pages between both of them when OTA and XTA place them next to each other.

Think this idea might have got missed. Something I'd like to see changed. Dunno about everybody else.

Molloy wrote:

Molloy wrote:Suggestion: put Fusion Reactors and MMM's on the same page of the build menu. I tend to build fusion, mmm, fusion, mmm and it's annoying having to flick through 3 pages between both of them when OTA and XTA place them next to each other.

Think this idea might have got missed. Something I'd like to see changed. Dunno about everybody else.

That would be nice indeed

Yeah as I was going through some of the build menus I noticed some inconsistencies like that which should really be fixed... I'll probably do it in next version.