Spring RTS Engine

FatController, next time could you upload to multiple sites? JJ is down and none of the other sites have 6.61

BaNa wrote: I don't think kbot are really all that bad, they just need more micro and use of rezzers. Vechs don't have anything that compares to rezzers, they rock!

Problem with T1 kbots is that it is so difficult to attack with them than you just go to T2. Not only kbots are weaker and slower than vehicles making them thus much more vulnerable to turrets, you also have (too) cheap rez bot, making it easy for defender to fix any possible damage caused by attack in no time.

IMHO, kbots ought to be either faster, or alternatively rocket/plasma kbots need slight range buff.

Kbots rock. Learn to micro them. Here are some beginners tips for rocko/storm handling:

Set lab to hold position, so you dont lose scouts that engage llt, and so that rockos stay in the neat line you set them up in.

Build them in a ratio of 5 rocko/storm, 1 ak/flea (as they have longer line of sight than LLT range), 1 rezzer/necro.

Keep the rockos and scouts in line, keep advancing, repair with rezzer and comm.

I agree there. It might help to watch some replays of experienced players handling kbots, especially rockos, to see how they move. Used correctly, they can cause immense destruction.

The fact is that well-microed kbots get slaughtered by well-microed vehicles on flat ground. Whether this is a bad thing is debateable.

arm beamer costs less than HLLT
has longer range
has 100 more dps (400 vs 300)
and only 300 less hp

why build the HLLT :/

hllt looks better.

BeefofAges wrote:The fact is that well-microed kbots get slaughtered by well-microed vehicles on flat ground. Whether this is a bad thing is debateable.

In my experience around 5% of spring players know how to micro vecs to counter bots well, and a similar number can micro kbots properly.

Edit: dsd basin doesnt count, vecs have a 10% speed boost there.

it depends; storm/rocko have less than half the dps of flash and often miss fast moving tanks.

if they are in a line, facing an incoming column of tanks, and skirmishing backwards, they will probably do ok.

if they are in a line that dosnt move back in time they get savaged up close as its the flash damage plus the selfdamage of their rockets

if they are in a bunch after mavuvers and flash attack into them, even moving backwards the flash will catch up and do horrible damage

if for any reason flash get into melee then, they die.
this isnt such a problem when skirmishing between llt lines, but when trying to defend against a flash group flanking you and moving towards your base the storms are not much good; moving in a colomn next to the enemy column, most the rockets miss, and since they have to close to do this its not much work for the flash to turn and melee into them, que massive losses.

obviously at their intended roles like anti-llt they own, but as anti unit they dont tend to do to well vs fast vehicles. as core especially, what do you use to fight flash swarms then? AKs are good on paper, 3 ak to the flash, 270dps to the 100dps, but in practice their low hp means that the bigger the conflict, the less their range advantage is useful and the less of them can get into combat at once, which in turn means their low hp becomes a massive disadvantage and they get wiped.
thuds are too slow to counter fastmoving tanks.

Imo core is well off with lines of storms + ak support

ak alone may not be too good v flash but storms + ak will do ok

The bigger danger is the stumpy hoards, BECAUSE THERE IS NO STOPPING THE STUMPAH

If the enemy outflanks you, you are doing it wrong...

Don't forget that kbots have the key advantage of necros on the battlefield, so even if more damage gets inflicted to them they can reclaim much faster and they have very good onspot repair too.

I think kbots have their place in early llt pwning and raiding, since they are reasonably fast and quickly build.

Now the flash has always been a difficult and curious thing. Balancing it isn't exactly the easiest thing and atm it's the single most sed and probably most effective early rushing unit because of it's speed and damage. I wonder if flashes should maybe get a small downgrade, but then again, it does never seem to effect any game in a negative way. Flashes are cool until the first stumpys appear on the battlefield, then they are mostly dropped, as BaNa said already.

That's cause stumpies are the best heavy t1 tank in terms of stats for cost.

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:arm beamer costs less than HLLT
has longer range
has 100 more dps (400 vs 300)
and only 300 less hp

why build the HLLT :/

I'm pretty sure the Beamer can't fire again until its beamtime expires, so it really takes 0.15 s to reload, not 0.1 s -> only 267 DPS.

Beamer is only useful for 2 reasons:
1) Outranges LLT
2) Really low BT means you can repair it REALLY fast, for free.

I am almost certain the HLLT has more DPS.

update your LUPS for the next version, current is broken on ati.

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:arm beamer costs less than HLLT
has longer range
has 100 more dps (400 vs 300)
and only 300 less hp

why build the HLLT :/

cause you are core and can't build beamer

Also those DPS maths are wrong but when looking at the units I did discover that beamers cost almost 0 energy to fire

Flash are good at taking down Stumpies, Gators on the other hand not as much, probably a Rate Of Fire issue as flash do constant damage and Gators are staggered from lower ROF

Stumpies still seem to beat raiders, but both are great porc busters because of strong armor and trajectory fire, even HLT can't kill Stumpies/Raiders fast.

Both Beamer and HLLT do great against Stumpies and Raiders, even the Lightning and Flame turrets do a good job against Armored tanks as well.

The problem with gators-v-stumpies is that gators have to be micro'd into point-blank range to maximize their damage. When fighting flashes they do fine because the flashes rush into close range anyways - but stumpies fire from a little further away so they can more easily take down the gators. Personally, I'd love a toggle-button for the laser-units (gator, ak, etc.) to switch them such that their primary weapon becomes a fake-missile with no range so they automatically close to point-blank, and the laser becomes a secondary-weapon. Yes, you could fake it with Lua, but Lua would mean having constant polling and move-orders instead of the advantages of using the built in "attack" AI.

adding abilities and all sorts of button is unnecessary..
Stumpies are over powered so there is no point comparing anything to them.
The same way a gator runs from flash while shooting at them it also runs after stumpy and is able to start shooting earlier than flash.
Judging how a unit does vs another unit is decieving because there are other untis in the game and other turrets and buildings so maybe unit A does worse vs one unit than unit B but better versus another and you don't take that into account but it is also part of its balance.