Spring RTS Engine

Dragon45 wrote:banthas tear apart gunship swarms pretty well actually

yes krogs have that vtol missile that follows gunships too. And altho gunships are most used air counter to the t3 bots(excluding emp plane), t2 bombers can also be used ~~

Sleksa wrote:THERE IS ONLY 1 T3 BOT THAT CAN ACTUALLY SHOOT AIR OUT OF THE FUCKING 10,

ORCONES, RAZORBACKS, MARAUDERS , VANGUARDS ,KROGS , JUGGS , SHIVAS, RAVENS DONT SHOOT AT AIR

Well Razorbacks also can shoot at air pretty well. Why mentioning the Orcone btw?

Sleksa wrote:

Dragon45 wrote:banthas tear apart gunship swarms pretty well actually

yes krogs have that vtol missile that follows gunships too. And altho gunships are most used air counter to the t3 bots(excluding emp plane), t2 bombers can also be used ~~

And are generally better at the job!

Sleksa wrote:

YokoZar wrote:T3 kbots should be superior to vehicles in most respects though, including AA

No you moron, I meant that they are superior. Try fielding kargs vs air sometime and see how well the brawlers do.

SORRY FOR NOT KNOWING THAT SHOULD DOES NOT MEAN SHOULD FOR RETARDS.

Bad Sleksa. That is a proper (I think it's proper? It's at least common and widely accepted.) usage of the word should. The 'should' in that usage refers not to what is best, but more to whether the person using it is remembering correctly.

Yeah sleska avatar (A stoned smilely) dosn't reflect his angry almost trollish troubled character

No, anybody who calls somebody a moron for reading should as any normal person would is an angry hotheaded fuckface.

tombom wrote:No, anybody who calls somebody a moron for reading should as any normal person would is an angry hotheaded fuckface.

I would disagree with the 'as any normal person would', but otherwise you make a valid overblown point.

lurker wrote:

Sleksa wrote:

YokoZar wrote:T3 kbots should be superior to vehicles in most respects though, including AA

No you moron, I meant that they are superior. Try fielding kargs vs air sometime and see how well the brawlers do.

SORRY FOR NOT KNOWING THAT SHOULD DOES NOT MEAN SHOULD FOR RETARDS.

Bad Sleksa. That is a proper (I think it's proper? It's at least common and widely accepted.) usage of the word should. The 'should' in that usage refers not to what is best, but more to whether the person using it is remembering correctly.

Meh, I read that "should be" as Sleska did the first time, before I read your above explanation and realized it was the other "should be".

So did I the first time, but both yokozar's and sleksa's next posts were blindly insulting.

Lets change the whole forum language to romanian or french, it may clarify the stupid ambiguities of english.

If bombers dropped bombs like they do in SupCom, ground AA would have alot better time dealing with incoming bomber waves.

As is, bombers drop their bombs "as or before" they get into most AA range, so the damage is already done, and maybe the AA units will get in a couple lucky shots when AA is the target.

Being like SUPCOM bombers meaning, if bombers only dropped their bombs as they get directly on top of the targer or when they're in very close range, instead of leading(?) and adjusting for gravity drop, bombers in general wouldn't be as powerful IMO.

I wonder how well bombers would work if they used 2d cylinder targeting, and a beam type aiming, instead of dropping gravity bombs which need to adjust for time to drop/gravity.

Visually it could be done so there is no discernible difference.

No discernible difference except the fact that the bomber is shooting bomb out the back instead of dropping. I could see bombs coming out at lower speed from drag etc, but not falling straight down. Maybe turning up the myGravity instead to make them curve faster?

What would low grav maps do then?
Mostly its about gameplay balance, not necessarily realism.

A beam type system that fires straight into a target wouldn't be effected by gravity in any situation.

MR.D wrote:What would low grav maps do then?
Mostly its about gameplay balance, not necessarily realism.

A beam type system that fires straight into a target wouldn't be effected by gravity in any situation.

Go talk to CA if you want beam weapons for bombers. IMO linebombing should be reimplemented.

You may be able to build lots of defenders with a lot of dps more than for example the Chainsaw with 10x the costs as you said but your Defender hordes also are going to shoot their first shot on pretty much the same single bomber and so waste lots of their possible dps.

This is obvious- stagger them. Like i said, you need a buffer, a nice big clear zone between you and him to stop planes in. Dont build your defenders in one long straight line scatter them about. Doing this, they will rarely overkill so much that their 2-3x dps superiority is negated.

A defender gets off 2-3 missiles at a bomber flying directly overhead, and if they are in a large group, even more. Its more than enough.

Hurricanes bombing your Defender clusters

'Clusters'. Yes, doing it wrong- they'll block eachothers line of fire if nothing else. Think fields, well spaced.

Defenders are much harder to kill than other AA, barring packo/SAM. Their HP-for-cost is actually higher than most other AA (Flak, chainsaw) but obviously they suffer more from AoE. If you spread them, this shouldnt be a problem. They are also much harder to target- remember he has to give an attack order on every defender, or an unreliable area attack order.

As for krows- nothing much kills krows. They are gunships anyway, and ill freely admit flak is better vs gunships (Though, as with all air, fighters are best).

I don't really see any reason not to buff the Chainsaw's DPS and make it T2.

Because then its a AoE-less flak? (Which it is now, only its a crap-AoE-less flak).

What would low grav maps do then?

You've never noticed bombers throw their bombs half way across the map on comet, speedmetal, etc?

Go talk to CA if you want beam weapons for bombers. IMO linebombing should be reimplemented.

\m/ How about line bombing laser bombers?

Anyone feel like testing if using manualBombSettings=1; with the short reload time and a large burstrate (defines the size of the target area for this) enables line bombing? I've never line bombed in OTA so I don't know what this behaviour should look like. Also to make bombs drop faster (resulting in a later drop to hit the same target) use myGravity. Values like .4 are pretty good to make the bomber move over the target.

OTOH, I'm not convinced that bombers are supposed to be stoppable, aren't they usually destroyed after they drop their bombs anyway? They seem like disposable high-power weapons to me, you'll lose them but the target will very likely die too. In Fibre I made sure to make bombers almost unstoppable when they attack your frontline, only if the bomber tries to get deep into your base it'll probably get destroyed before it can attack. They're expensive, they're unwieldy but at least they're likely to put some hurt where you want it.

Saktoth wrote:This is obvious- stagger them. Like i said, you need a buffer, a nice big clear zone between you and him to stop planes in. Dont build your defenders in one long straight line scatter them about. Doing this, they will rarely overkill so much that their 2-3x dps superiority is negated.

'Clusters'. Yes, doing it wrong- they'll block eachothers line of fire if nothing else. Think fields, well spaced.

Well the problem is as I said:
You can do that for example on DSD in the lower half but tell me how to put 30 (or even more) Defenders in the middle of Altored Divide in a scattered, non-clustered way which won't block your units moving to the front...

In OTA, if you gave another attack order while bombs were being dropped it would ignore the usual reload timing and allow you to hit multiple targets in a single pass. It required precise timing, but was lots of fun.

We definately need linebombing for Liches imho

Bombs work in a Salvo in spring though right?
Once they start firing they don't stop untill last bomb is dropped, and it also uses a better reloading timer system.

Line bombing was pretty evil with Lvl-2 IIRC..