Spring RTS Engine

Forboding Angel wrote:Noize... The gators damage drops from 247 at adjacent to 35 at absolute max range.

Since this is a "Feature" It should be documented as such.

Perhaps you should read page 9 and 10. Lots of useful data there.

Forboding Angel, All your calculations are true, but you forgot to take range into account, which is a large factor in games, because gators can run away and if your flashes chase them they will die be4 they catch up.

Range is really important, thats also why really late game, even Annihilators are worth it!

Gator barrel turnrate is too slow. It can only fire sometimes while turning. Also the range difference is about a 2x2 footprint, and at that range it's only doing 35-45 damage which merely scratches the paint of a flash. Moreover, the flash is faster is it not?

Anyway, that's why I was saying make the gator barrel turnrate 250 (flash speed) or 300 so that it when running away or up super close it can match effectiveness with the flash. Gators cost more, and build slower, therefore in cost vs time x amount of gators should theoretically be able to take on a larger number of flashes. This is not the case currently, and due to flash spamability compared it creates a stacked deck in ARM's favor.

Make sense (whether you take it seriously or not)?

I'm not asking for much here. All I'm saying is that there is a disparity here, can we kinda shore it up a little bit?

Edit: btw the anni can and sumo are fine imo, I was just using them as examples of minintensity. Sorry if that caused confusion.

Have you tried using this against people so that both forces are microed or are you number hypothesizing?

Gator/Flash balance is fine in BA. Please can we stop banging on about it?

Look Forb, if you think the Flash is so OP then why don't you demonstrate it in a real match?

KDR_11k wrote:Look Forb, if you think the Flash is so OP then why don't you demonstrate it in a real match?

+1 like I said FA as arm vs Noize or Sleksa as core on comet 1v1.

dosnt what forb suggests about the damage at maximum range being low negate the gator range advantage to a degree?

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:dosnt what forb suggests about the damage at maximum range being low negate the gator range advantage to a degree?

It doesn't negate the advantage, it moderates it. If you dealt full damage at range with a longer range weapon at such a basic level, Core players like NOiZE or myself might be considered horrible twinks.

I've personally never found a reason to fault my Gator, just like I don't fault my Reaper. It is difficult to look at all the factors out of game and generate a useful evaluation.

twinks.... as in ditzy sexually open teenage homosexual

No, twinks as in twinkers, a corruption of tweakers, referring to rule lawyering in some RPG circles, but thank you for that cultural tidbit.

Is that a legitimate piece of slang?

'Cause that is quite funny. I wonder how many people have googled it and received something of a shock.

It's probably a much less common interpretation of the word, all things considered.

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:dosnt what forb suggests about the damage at maximum range being low negate the gator range advantage to a degree?

The reason min intensity exists is to make up for the perfect accuracy of lasers at long range vs fast moving targets.

However, it falls off at a flat 50% to max range, when really it should fall off faster if longer ranged, slower if shorter ranged, if it were to be kept consistent with the inaccuracy on other weapons.

Can I hijack the thread and ask what's the problem with Reapers?

I'm a Core player and I'm still trying to figure out which tank to build when (or if I should move to Sumos. Never built Banisher's BTW)...

UAF wrote:Can I hijack the thread and ask what's the problem with Reapers?

What's wrong with Reapers? In any case, the Reaper is a front-liner; put it in front of more fragile stuff, which is pretty much everything else in the Core T2 vehicle plant. If you have enough Reapers you can try driving your way through (through, not into) a defense line, although you need to scout first to make sure that your Reapers > their defense.

On the subject of Goliaths versus Reapers: the Golly is NOT a front-line tank. It may have 7k hit points, but look how much it costs! The Gollie is anti-swarm fire support, best against slow T1 swarms. If you have Reapers and the enemy has Gollies, spread your Reapers out and drive them into the thickest part of the Gollie formation at point-blank range. This way the Gollies will hurt themselves with their own shots while also taking damage from your Reapers. You can often win with only a small numerical advantage this way, despite the Gollies' much higher cost. This won't work as well if the game has progressed to such a point that players can build carpets of Gollies, but at that point you might as well go T3 and spam Shiva, which are better than Gollie in nearly every way, if you want to mass land units. Hopefully the game never reaches this point though.

Nothing is wrong with Reapers, but some people such as Flop believe they're inferior. It was a subtle jab to make some people in SmuG and 1uP feel in the know.

I've always felt that the Reaper was the only cost effective, micro responsive T2 mainline tank and I love using them.

Personally, I consider Reapers to be about as useful as moveable armor blocks. Their DPS is pretty horrendous, though their cost makes them super-spammable. This leads to using Reapers as meatshields for everything else in the Core arsenal.

So yes, alone the Reapers suck balls. If you play against a heavily defended or skillful T2 player, you're going to need more than just Reapers.

So what does this mean? This means the T2 Core vehicle arsenal gives you lots of different options, but nothing that's singularly effective when spammed. This is different compared to Arm, which the posses a tank that mixes and matches the best features of the Reaper and Gollie at a still spammable cost: The Bulldog.

REVENGE wrote:Personally, I consider Reapers to be about as useful as moveable armor blocks. Their DPS is pretty horrendous, though their cost makes them super-spammable. This leads to using Reapers as meatshields for everything else in the Core arsenal.

So yes, alone the Reapers suck balls. If you play against a heavily defended or skillful T2 player, you're going to need more than just Reapers.

So what does this mean? This means the T2 Core vehicle arsenal gives you lots of different options, but nothing that's singularly effective when spammed. This is different compared to Arm, which the posses a tank that mixes and matches the best features of the Reaper and Gollie at a still spammable cost: The Bulldog.

I find that the Bulldog like the Golly is a poor unit choice, sluggish in response and vulnerable to manuverable foes. I used to take great joy in out microing Bulldog with Reaper, particularly on the defensive, with considerable gains comparable to using Gator against Flash in that manner.

Noob talk.

Thanks for the info.
You know, it'll be really nice if there will be a strategy guide or some other noob and newbie friendly explenation option somewhere.

From the rules I got the impression that this thread is the only place to talk about BA, but isn't it possible to (since there is no detailed strategy guide) to start a Strategy guide thread thingy on the forums where all the important questions and explenations could go?


Also, I notice people here constantly talk about Microing your gators, flashes, reapers and other tanks. But there is a limit to how much you can (and want) to micro your units. I need to tend to my base, my economy, and perhaps attack from other directions. I don't want to micro my gators just to defeat some flashes (or my reapers against something else) while the enemy can spend his time managing other affairs. If that's the case then flashs (If I'm to continue on that example) superior. The player have limited concetration ability. If I know that the enemy will need to either Micro his gators or loose them for every group of flashs I build. I'll just send one group to keep him microing his gators and another to get his base. Then spend my brainpower developing while he try to Micro a bunch of tanks to survive.


P.S - please respond to BOTH points raised here, for a strategy guide/forum thread for new BA players will be VERY VERY VERY useful.