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Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 16:57
by albon
Question : why the nuke is SO slow now ?
What was the point in its flight speed reduction ?
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 17:02
by [Krogoth86]
That should come from the way in which Noize reacted to the changes on starburst missiles in the new Spring version...
I also wondered if the Anti-Nukes still work as expected - I haven't played V6 while keeping attention to this but I remember that I also had to change something on the missiles when the new version came out...
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 17:08
by albon
Antinukes are still very fast, so now the missile is often intercepted right above its silo.
And now it's impossible to hit anything moving because you have to predict/guess it's position more than 30 seconds ahead...
Edit: this is actually a request : please set back the nuke missile speed.
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 17:50
by Scikar
[Krogoth86] wrote:Saktoth wrote:This is something about air, you need a buffer. You need to shoot him down before he reaches your base- if you shoot him down over your base he's already dropped his bombs and its too late. Its like gine says, if he doesnt have enough territory to make aa in and doesnt have room to comfortably patrol his fighters, he cant shoot down air. Oh well, with so little territory he was probably going to lose anyway. You can do the same thing with EMP launchers or BB. On DSD, if you can hold the middle, you can make EMP launchers/BB and EMP his antis/bb his base. This is just the consequence of having less territory and is, imo, a good thing- allowing a player with a clear lead to secure victory.
Well the reason for this discussion was not about the way you have to do your AA (you're correct about what you said) but the lack of serious T2 ground AA that has a decent value against bombers (in comparison to T1)...
When coming back to the Defenders as the somewhat best ground AA you also have to look at some additional disadvantages besides the space consumption I mentioned. When considering their strength against bombers you also have to consider their behaviour. You may be able to build lots of defenders with a lot of dps more than for example the Chainsaw with 10x the costs as you said but your Defender hordes also are going to shoot their first shot on pretty much the same single bomber and so waste lots of their possible dps. With a reload time of 1.7 the bombers already have passed through - well I guess more than half of the entire range circle. So in the end they only have a first shot which is going to be total wastage and only the 2nd ones may be of interest. The Chainsaw for example with less than a third of that reload time scales much better here and has the small range advantage...
In addition to that and as we're speaking of T2 the Defenders also are very fragile. I mean if there won't be some Hurricanes bombing your Defender clusters there's going to be a Liche or even better Krow which will come around and scramble your Defenders like toys with your dps dropping like hell in no time. The "stronger" AA buildings can resist a bit longer without dps drops...
It doesn't really change the fact that you either have powerful AA that can be easily knocked out by a couple of gunships, or weak AA that isn't easily destroyed but won't stop the bombers from taking out their target. I don't really see any reason not to buff the Chainsaw's DPS and make it T2.
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 18:05
by NOiZE
Klopper wrote:Noticed strange behavior of Core's t2 jammer vehicle: In a recent game i ordered 2 of them to guard a Juggernaut, but instead of staying close to him they always tried to drive into battle to the next radar that was "attacking" the jugger (at least i think it was a radar, could have been some other target too though).
Couldn't reproduce this, got a replay or something?
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 20:27
by Klopper
NOiZE wrote:Klopper wrote:Noticed strange behavior of Core's t2 jammer vehicle: In a recent game i ordered 2 of them to guard a Juggernaut, but instead of staying close to him they always tried to drive into battle to the next radar that was "attacking" the jugger (at least i think it was a radar, could have been some other target too though).
Couldn't reproduce this, got a replay or something?
When i'm back at home after the weekend i will see if i still have the replay, if so i can post it on UF or something. It might be possible that i deleted it though since it was one of those turned stupid ds dry > 1 hour games with t3, airspam and stuff
Maybe anybody else has noticed that behaviour too?
edit: BTW the Juggernaut i wanted to guard with the jammer vehicles wasn't mine, but a teammate's one...maybe that can have something to do with it?
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 20:43
by [Krogoth86]
NOiZE wrote:Couldn't reproduce this, got a replay or something?
Well I think I could reproduce it:
It's pretty simple - when a unit someone is guarding gets attacked, it gets an attack order on what causes the damage. As the Deleters now have a Bogus_Missile as weapon they then get an attack order and act like they could...
Interesting - didn't ever notice this. Correcting this should be piece of cake by either removing the weapon or setting canattack=0 (or both
)...
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 22:32
by KDR_11k
Crotch missiles for the Krog are a stupid idea. Everyone knows that's where the Timmy goes.
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 22:56
by Klopper
KDR_11k wrote:Crotch missiles for the Krog are a stupid idea.
KDR_11k wrote:Everyone knows that's where the Timmy goes.
Gotta admit though that crotch Timmies for Krogs are even better, implement in BA asap plz
Speaking of Timmies, any thoughts regarding 4k e Timmy shots and 3k e Bertha shots? I mean Arm already has EMP silos to stun and BB shields without need for t2 bombers...
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 23:16
by [Krogoth86]
KDR_11k wrote:Crotch missiles for the Krog are a stupid idea. Everyone knows that's where the Timmy goes.
A sound plan...
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 04:23
by LordMatt
Klopper wrote:
BTW what is the idea behind letting Timmy shots cost 4k e while BB shots only cost 3k? In OTA Timmies had ~25% more range and damage iirc, but in BA they are almost the same...
Because core sucks.
I was the one who fixed the starburst missiles for BA, but I readily admit that someone could do a better job, as I was just trying to get them to work well enough for the immanent new spring release.
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 10:02
by dzzirrus
[Krogoth86] wrote:
It's pretty simple - when a unit someone is guarding gets attacked, it gets an attack order on what causes the damage. As the Deleters now have a Bogus_Missile as weapon they then get an attack order and act like they could...
Seen that a lot...
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 12:37
by Comp1337
[quote="[Krogoth86]"][/quote]
Warcrim aproved!
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 12:46
by dzzirrus
BTW those t2 bombers are also great as defensive weapon.
While their price is low, they can destroy army which price is a way higher (penetrators, banishers, etc.).
And those mobile flaks are worthless, bomber can even fly away after he dropped bombs
All i can suggest about AA vs bombers is to increase flak's accuracy a lot along with lowering splash damage.
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 13:18
by YokoZar
Sleksa wrote:T3 kbots should be superior to vehicles in most respects though, including AA
What the hell? The very thing that kills t3 bots is air, so you'd like to give krogs a few flak cannons on the shoulders then? maybe a screamer missile up his crotch too?
No you moron, I meant that they
are superior. Try fielding kargs vs air sometime and see how well the brawlers do.
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 16:06
by manored
After a certain point BBs and bombers are pretty much the only things that can end stalemates, so maybe its not BBs that are OP but other stuff that is UP :)
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 16:34
by Klopper
LordMatt wrote:Klopper wrote:
BTW what is the idea behind letting Timmy shots cost 4k e while BB shots only cost 3k? In OTA Timmies had ~25% more range and damage iirc, but in BA they are almost the same...
Because core sucks.
NOT!
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 17:37
by ZellSF
Uh, mobile antis, if told to fire at will, will try to attack the nearest enemy target, heading into enemy territory and dying horribly.
This is very annoying, and has cost me two mobile antis already.
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 18:52
by Sleksa
YokoZar wrote:T3 kbots should be superior to vehicles in most respects though, including AA
No you moron, I meant that they are superior. Try fielding kargs vs air sometime and see how well the brawlers do.
SORRY FOR NOT KNOWING THAT SHOULD DOES NOT MEAN SHOULD FOR RETARDS.
Try fielding kargs vs air sometime and see how well the brawlers do.
THERE IS ONLY 1 T3 BOT THAT CAN ACTUALLY SHOOT AIR OUT OF THE FUCKING 10,
ORCONES, RAZORBACKS, MARAUDERS , VANGUARDS ,KROGS , JUGGS , SHIVAS, RAVENS DONT SHOOT AT AIR
BUT KARG DOES
THEREFORE BECAUSE KARG CAN SHOOT AT AIR, EVERY FUCKING T3 BOT CAN?
Re: Balanced Annihilation V6.0
Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 19:03
by Dragon45
banthas tear apart gunship swarms pretty well actually
