Spring RTS Engine

Well tbh NOiZE listened to himself:D I just suggested we test berthas accuracy so we did, then we compared it to buzzsaw/vulcan accuracy and realised that often the bertha was in fact LESS ACCURATE than the buzzsaw/vulcan.

I didn't make any suggestions as to how much more accurate the bertha should be in my opinion. NOiZE just took what he observed from the playtest and decided on his own values. Basically he just saw how shite the bertha was and fixed it:D

I tested bertha with sitting com and LOS and before it would hit like 1 of 30 shots. But now that it hits about 1 of 5 its ZOMG OP.

That replay would have been much better if it hadn't crashed after one guy got kicked...

It didn't crash.

KDR_11k wrote:That replay would have been much better if it hadn't crashed after one guy got kicked...

This is a bug in replays that myself, day and noize found ages ago. Noize reported it. Has anything been done to fix?

Yeah but the kick caused a crash so I couldn't watch until the end.

Long story short, WarC spammed like 20 BBs and won ^^.

To think BA5.8 has convinced me to stop playing spring as much..
I watched that replay and Noticable 9/10 times the bertha was a direct hit
Return the accuracy if the LRPC settings to it's stock settings ta ^^

LordMatt wrote:I tested bertha with sitting com and LOS and before it would hit like 1 of 30 shots. But now that it hits about 1 of 5 its ZOMG OP.

Really? Delta siege, I was moving a cloaked commander as it was being bombarded by one Bertha, and 3/4 times it got a direct hit Fortunately it had exp ^^'

Complicated wrote:To think BA5.8 has convinced me to stop playing spring as much..
I watched that replay and Noticable 9/10 times the bertha was a direct hit
Return the accuracy if the LRPC settings to it's stock settings ta ^^

rofl. It is at about OTA settings now, having been brought back from a huge overnerf where it couldn't hit a small stationary target with full LOS at all.

what's wrong with that? Oh you want to make things easier for yourself? Okay, take the challenge out of the game :]

LordMatt wrote:

Complicated wrote:...Return the accuracy if the LRPC settings to it's stock settings ta ^^

rofl. It is at about OTA settings now...

No way. Bertha's in OTA were absolutely useless until they gained experience. Eventually they became almost 100% accurate but initially they were terrible. This, at least, gave the defender(s) a chance to find it and do something about it before it's too late.

From the parts of the match I've seen the BB was mostly accurate because the target was really close.

It doesn't change an incredible amount with range, but that doesn't matter.

TechnoTone wrote: No way. Bertha's in OTA were absolutely useless until they gained experience. Eventually they became almost 100% accurate but initially they were terrible. This, at least, gave the defender(s) a chance to find it and do something about it before it's too late.

It was around 1 of 7 as a nub and got better as you killed more stuffs. That's why it was often a good idea to target some wind bricks first to build up the veterancy.

Machiosabre wrote:this looks like fun, I hope T2 arm bots are getting worked over next.

I agree with Machiosabre, T2 Arm bots are FAR inferior to T2 Core kbots, even with their faster speed (overall). The Core has much better cost effectiveness in terms of armor, damage, and range. The Arm has nothing that even can compare to the Sumo in terms of pure DPS and armor. The Zeus and the Maverick are joke for the price and build times. The only time I've seen the Maverick used effectively is if air dropped behind enemy lines where there was nothing to shoot at it. It dies way too quickly for it's huge build time.

My second problem with BA is something that should be obviously unbalanced to everybody. Who's genius idea was it to put the rez bots in level 1 tech? What is the reasoning behind this? They are not needed in that spot. Would you put Cans and Mavericks in level 1 factories? What about invisible spy kbots? Freakers/Farks? Of course not, that's totally absurd. Think about the cost to benefit ratio. In one game I completely resurrected an enemy Krogoth in about 5 min for almost nothing. And the fact that you can rez commanders at any point in the game is a bit lame.

The third problem is dragon's teeth. Seriously. It takes less than a second to build a DT, and about ten minutes to kill it by conventional standards. Notice, I said convential standards. The only other option you really have is to A. Nuke the DTs (what a huge waste of money) or B. Reclaim them. Both options suck. Unless you're a complete noob you've built a couple LLTs outside your dragons teeth and any con vehicle that attempts to reclaim your shit will die quickly. You can send your commander, but that makes him very vunerable and usually your commander is busy doing more important things and doesn't have time for such nonsense.

There needs to be some form of counter to walls of dragon's teeth. Let me rephrase that, a realistic counter.

In Absolute Annihilation for OTA Caydr outfitted the minelayers with a buildable AoE missile that did 0 damage to anything but destroyed all DTs in a pretty nice area. I guess he never got around to adding this in Spring AA, so please, finish his work.

If you think anything I've said is exaggerated or wrong, please feel free to correct me, I'm just trying to improve the game and make it more enjoyable for everybody.

Wing

Wingflier, most of the issues you bring up are irrelevant in a 1v1 context, which is why they will probably not be addressed.

Wingflier wrote:I agree with Machiosabre, T2 Arm bots are FAR inferior to T2 Core kbots, even with their faster speed (overall). The Core has much better cost effectiveness in terms of armor, damage, and range.

I mostly agree, though one should not forget that Arm has the Sharpshooter, which when used intelligently is the best Kbot in the whole game.

My second problem with BA is something that should be obviously unbalanced to everybody. Who's genius idea was it to put the rez bots in level 1 tech? What is the reasoning behind this? They are not needed in that spot. Would you put Cans and Mavericks in level 1 factories? What about invisible spy kbots? Freakers/Farks? Of course not, that's totally absurd. Think about the cost to benefit ratio.

Flavour-wise, yes T1 rezbots suck. Balance-wise? Rezbots take time to get to the frontline (unlike comms/cons which would likely be on-site anyway), die when you sneeze on them, and you may not always get the unit you need.

In one game I completely resurrected an enemy Krogoth in about 5 min for almost nothing.

A) You need E to rez.
B) If the enemy sends a krog in and has no units around to secure the wreck when it dies, it's his own bad judgement.

And the fact that you can rez commanders at any point in the game is a bit lame.

lol @ rezzing comms

bunch 'o nonsense about DT

ROFL

T1 resbots are awesome. Kbots prettymuch suck compared to vechs, but resbots give them a unique economic advantage. While lacking the raw firepower of vechs, resbots give kbots a distinct advantage once the wrecks begin to pile up.

Think of kbots like infantry, and resbots like medics.

What i hate is when people go 'Dont reclaim that, i want to res it all!' and then proceed to lose all his resbots, lose all his territory and let the enemy reclaim all the wrecks.

Okay, time to teach someone how to deal with DT's. Dont send in a lone constructor unless there is a spot in his dt line with no defenses. Send in your force to the weakest point in his DT line, and while they distract the weapons, reclaim the dt's. If you -really- want to get rid of them, use air cons while your flash (or stumpies or whatever) distract his defenses. Air cons can reclaim a whole line of dt's in seconds.

Barring that, take down his llt/hlt's in an area using vech arty and then send in a con to reclaim the dt's.

In a t2 situation, try EMP weapons. Primarily the Emp missile launcher and the Stiletto. They wipe out DT's in 1 hit and will often paralyze his defenses too.

Regarding paralyzers & features:
http://spring.clan-sy.com/fisheye/chang ... g/?cs=4584