Spring RTS Engine

jK wrote:
100% chili btw

corresponding commit (didn't commit chili loadscreen, cause I am unsure to commit chili to basecontent, so only more basic examples are included):
https://github.com/spring/spring/commit ... a14ade548c

is it possible to just write a plain old gl gui to replace base functionality and include your widgets in the chili examples?

jK wrote:loadscreen

Very nice! Looks very pro in its simplicity (not showing more or less than needed).
Does the text scale down if more teams play?

smoth wrote:yeah, problem is 90% of the spring maps have shit lighting.

Probably more like 99%. In any case, wouldn't you want to release BAR with its own set of maps?

not a BAR dev. I am just here to hang around for when behe needs me. I have my new project but it'll be a while before I post something playable.

Back when deved gundam, it used to kill me when my project was played on stuff like hunters maps(he used a lot of bright orange lighting) it drove me up a wall. Not to pick on just him but TABULA kills me because it is played a lot and the lighting is TOO strong.

It is because I hated the way most spring maps looked with my stuff that I picked up mapping here. I still think many mappers maps played really well and several of them do have great lighting. To say 99% seems a bit mean.

either way bob, I agree 100% about the shadows. Unfortunately modules cannot easily override map modules . I may write a gadget in the near future that will tweak thing lighting (jk's map edit gadget may show me how to alter this)

actually i found tabula v2 s light gorgous..

PicassoCT wrote:actually i found tabula v2 s light gorgous..

dunno, maybe I have not played it but IIRC it had very orange lighting, with the paler palette I prefer it tends to ruin my colors and my reflections are that hideous orange.

I guess thats very much taste.. i liked it. Which indirectly gives you a point- games should be able to colour manage maps..

Or games could just have maps. The environment is half of the art, and since the art changes so much game to game, it doesn't make sense to have maps that are shared between games. Kernel Panic is the obvious extreme of this. Obviously a lot of work, but I'm sure someone would be willing to pitch in on that regard.

Also, for the record, I didn't mean to say that the lighting in 99% of Spring maps is shit in a mean way (as if it should be better or something.) It's to be expected when everyone is working essentially solo and not getting paid, as well as no approval process etc. Also there's that whole subjectivity thing that was just discussed.

which is what I ultimately decided to do, "BAAAAAAAAAW WHY OS THE GUNDAM INSTALLER 200 MEG BA IS ONlY26" was the resultant whining. You and I both know IF one of the big titles does a demo we are lucky if the fing thing is <2 gigs these days.

Even still I didn't think it was terribly bad. but instead I had people around here download gundam and hate it because it didn't play well on DSD. Other times they wanted to download so tiny assed map because they didn't see it as clear as you and I. So I'd frequently have to change my gundam server off of greenfields or some equally crap map. pretty much all I could do was always have the gundam server on the gundam maps. Then they go and change the global default maps to some ugly something like that icey triangle lake map. for 3 months there were 20 chinese dudes playing on that crap . after licho hooked me up and changed the default back to the officail they kept changing it back for some ungoldly reason(and they played a faction that didn't have the water advantage to begin with)..

Not too easily controlled what happens on the servers. because most of the shit maps have been around forever, I can detect the name and overrride the lighting settings >:D

ARM Geo

bigger
Pretty much done... time for a break.

smoth wrote:is it possible to just write a plain old gl gui to replace base functionality and include your widgets in the chili examples?

https://github.com/jk3064/chili_loadscreen

jK wrote:
100% chili btw

corresponding commit (didn't commit chili loadscreen, cause I am unsure to commit chili to basecontent, so only more basic examples are included):
https://github.com/spring/spring/commit ... a14ade548c

kudos jk - hardwork for a artwork

nothing to see here, jk being awesome as usual

Not too easily controlled what happens on the servers. because most of the shit maps have been around forever, I can detect the name and overrride the lighting settings >:D

+1

Or games could just have maps

Problem with game-specifique maps seems to be that often only some of them are good and some are even unplayable.
So players eventually start playing on other maps.

Examples:
Kernel Panic:
Some maps have way too narrow pathways, units always get clumped up there. (in all versions of engine, it is just that narrow)
On the other hand the Speedball-maps were not made with KP in mind (afaik) but play good.

Conflict Terra:
On some maps the texture and heightmap do not line up -> confusing to play.

Gundam:
Problems like one start area being just a bit steeper than the others and one can not move out and other similiar things.
Balance wise maps imo too large, good players could rebuild faster than killing each other so many matches did not end. There were no small official maps.

EvoRTS:
Idk what the problem is here, but even in the pre-tourney-test-games with Forboding all the games were played on Comet Catcher, Nuclear Winter, Green Comet etc. None on Evo maps.

---

Hooray Lua loadscreens!
Should people start blowing the dust from their Lua-pongs or is it too early?

knorke wrote:Gundam:
Problems like one start area being just a bit steeper than the others and one can not move out and other similiar things.

what maps?

knorke wrote: Balance wise maps imo too large, good players could rebuild faster than killing each other so many matches did not end.

there was never a mistake about the powered gms being late game tech. Their high mobility and powerful weapons are game ending. Every experience gundam player knew to use them late game. They were so rediculously game ending that I had to limit your overall count to 40(20 rl and 20 machine gun). Zeon had several late game base raiders and a lot of outright death machines like the gelgoog canon and zgok(with vlauches I have killed many full armored gundams with them. then between dom swarms and air droping goufs everywhere or sneaking them in with recon zakus.

sorry but that was only when people who didn't know. Even wallks of gm snipers are quickly destroyed by powered gm rushes. Watched it happen countless times. It was one of the key balance aspects around 1.27. In 1.28 I had given all artillery unit high trajectory as well which really really changed base harassment. "but but hills" the powered gms had acceleration on hills, they worked the opposite than most people thought. The hills on gundam might as well be the >>> arrows in the racing game like wipeout and fzero.

knorke wrote:There were no small official maps.

Lol. NONE

not that it mattered, back in the day kdr and I had fast as fuck matches as zeon. If you take more than 30 minutes to crush someone on messa or cooked you took too long.

No point to discuss gameplay of old mod so just this thread on maps:

Here someone explains why he prefers Gundam on a 12x4 map:
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... =0#p484983
In startpost of that thread you list "Cold Place" which is btw that "ugly something like that icey triangle lake map" and sized 14x10.
Other maps from thread: Field of Isis and MoonQ10x: 14x8 and 10x10
Your linked "small" maps are 24x12 and 32x8...even if narrow that is not small.

But all that aside, the "20 chinese players for 3 months" were probally the most players GRTS ever had. If they also prefered smaller or whatever kind of maps, I would have taken that as some feedback. Yesyes DSD all the time but that is obviously a different situation.

knorke wrote:No point to discuss gameplay of old mod so just this thread on maps:

hey chief, you wanted to argue points about a project you didn't really understand, I was giving you the relevant info. Not saying it in a negative way but your understanding of gundam's units is terribly limited based on the issues you said so I felt it was necessary to clarify the issue made in your points.

knorke wrote:Here someone explains why he prefers Gundam on a 12x4 map:
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... =0#p484983

Kaiser was saying he enjoyed the icey run map as the tiny version. I was just trying to push for bigger and bigger stuff at the time, to make the tiny one he wanted took about 10 minutes I wanted to try and make a bigger one also.
1a: because I was hearing people say they wanted bigger maps so they could use more super units.
1b: because I was looking at adding REALLY big units soon:

that is what kaiser was saying about the icey run version that I made huge and not what he wanted to see in the remake. Keep in mind kaiser was a very rare gundam player. So if I did the smaller version it would have been a favor for a friend.

knorke wrote:In startpost of that thread you list "Cold Place" which is btw that "ugly something like that icey triangle lake map"

you go again quoting out of context. This was the very first sentence of the thread. While I was doing the stuff for grts so I could stop seeing people play on ugly unmaintained maps.

Imma try and remake a few classics for grts.

I didn't mind adding a few to the list.

2a: people kept playing on cold place, so the obvious solution was to remake it it to NOT look like dated crap. If they wanted it, I as a developer had to add it. What Mr. Bob is saying I feel is true, the game's maps should match the game art.
2b: this was a thread about maps I wanted to step through and remake because I though they needed an update. At the time I felt if people are going to play these maps, the least I could do was make them so they did not look clash so terribly with the gundam art. NOT 100% just stuff I felt I should redo for gundam I didn't mind doing a few more.

knorke wrote:Other maps from thread: Field of Isis and MoonQ10x: 14x8 and 10x10
Your linked "small" maps are 24x12 and 32x8...even if narrow that is not small.

yet they had very forward start points allowing me to go from my base to theirs quickly. Hell, one of my favorite things about next version with the tech system supported smaller maps better. Even still your measurement of small is based on BA. Don't. Gundam has significantly larger ranges. Outside of the stuff like bertha, vulcans and nukes. i could readily do them as playable now. Narrow valley hardly ever made it past 4 tech points of research before someone was killed. Go, look at the start positions and tell me how HUGE it is. Half the map goes unused in 1v1.

the reason? I put the 2 start points 1 and 2 in the middle of the map. a xamel can fire from 1 base to another.
*edit for clarification*
see the range rings? anything closer becomes ridiculous.

If there were any closer zeon would always have a distinct advantage(outside of the fact the federation has saberfish) the issue is the zeon player could just build massive AA and shoot with impunity via the xamel. Of course, the federation player would be able to airdrop guntanks on the ridge and DESTROY the zeon base or build back behind the large tower but high trajectory makes that an issue. ranges are very long in gundam and the game play very different so when you talk about small 12x12 is TERRIBLY small for a skilled player. They can overrun you in minutes once they get shiro or char.
*/edit for clarification*


This is spring, on the autohosts, start points are irrelephant. People put start boxes all over the place.

knorke wrote:But all that aside, the "20 chinese players for 3 months" were probally the most players GRTS ever had.

and? your point?

knorke wrote:If they also prefered smaller or whatever kind of maps, I would have taken that as some feedback.

the ones who spoke English didn't know how to change the map. Once they learned how they said it was the primary one everyone played by then and they were familiar with it. The ones who didn't kept changing it back, so the ones who could understand my request, I remember respected it. Had you ever watch them play. and I did it was terrible, they spent tons of time building up waves of units walking them towards the enemy and occasionally building the right thing and wining. but hey by all means tell me how their expert opinion should have shaped my development. Truth is, the language barrier made it terribly difficult for them to read the detailed tooltips or understand anything I said when I tried to teach them things like explosives wreck buildings.

knorke wrote:Yesyes DSD all the time but that is obviously a different situation.

yeah the dsd thing was years ago, I was like guys, this isn't a good map to play gundam on. and they were like well maybe gundam needs to be more like ba. the only direct quote I recall was them saying "gundam sucked because it didn't play well on dsd." Essentially that I should reduce the ranges and unit size to ba and that would be better. Nah, just because someone wanted me to reduce gundam to a BA skin doesn't mean I shall. Hell those players are not even around any more.

Commando (click to view in 3D)


Behold! Just finished texturing.

edit: updated image fix

the textures are not loading. Can you do anythin with the feet? that is the only part I dislike

Stance like a sumo wrestler. But he's a tad too skinny to pull that look off.