Spring RTS Engine

I'm completely against the idea of taks deforming terrain solely by themselves, as I'm quite sure the effort to create this effect would be unnecessarily heavy and would rise at least two hundred undead bugs.

Now, unlike half of you seem to be thinking, I'm not against terrain deformation. It's probably the greatest thing happening in the entire RTS history. It's so innovative it makes HomeWorld cry. Yes, of course and completely obvious, there is so much strategy in this it's not even funny... you start out with tanks, to switch to kbots, to capture some land and use tanks anew. It's immensively cool. The only thing I'm suggesting is to ease the deformation power of explosions to prevent wearing out maps in matter of minutes.

And if tanks stuck, by all means, let them stuck, it's just the fact that if this happens before you had time to blink, it gonna be suck... vehicles would be obsolete, don't you see my point?

Look, I have no problems if any of you critisize what I say, as long as you critisize what I say and not something you think I say. It annoys the hell out of me seing people replying to completely irrelevant things.

I can say I see what you say Storm, but I can't say I see what you see, or what you say that you see.

Landscape hardness maps will sove this problem once and for all.

Storm, take it easy. It's only on divide maps that the terrain will get too bumpy to pass safely without being picked off. In more open maps you have a lot of ways to get to your enemy. And by the time the entire map is demolished the battle will be over. On the divide map it usually ends up in a fight where no one does send units across the divide.

I have played spring, and the deformation hasn't been an issue in any games. It might become eventually but gamer's experiences will tell if it's too much or not. I personally think it's very realistic. If the battle shifts to another part of the map to attack your enemy, you could restore the less guarded and crowded area in the mean time. Besides the disadvantage is for both players.

Shade wrote:

Storm wrote:Could you cut the bothersome crap that doesn't mean anything? I don't come here to listen to figments of your imagination and hear you proclaim how we all should view TA. If it's truly 40 000 years in the future, these things would have developed a bomb large enough to combust the Universe and we wouldn't have a game to start with!! A game I'm really trying to improve.

And Jesus Christ, you spell like a hobo! Why am I even answering you?

Finally, someone said it. I haven't been here a week and I already want to kick him in the... well, never mind.

But I think there's a good point with the matter dissipation... But it seems a moot point, if nothing else. A game is kinda like VR - it's only going to get so real until it becomes overkill.

WILL EVERYONE LEAVE Alantai Firestar ALLONE WHATS He EVER DONE!?!?! ARRGGHHH!!!!

On a lighter note... DONT ANY OF YOU GUYS READ!!?!? (kk back to heavey...)

IT HAS BEEN SAID THAT THE AMOUNT OF TERAIN WILL ALWAYS BE THE SAME>>> YOU CAN@T DIMOLISH A HILL!!! IF YOU FLATEN IT OUT A BIT THE LOWER GROUND RISES UP. NO LAND " JUST DISAPERS " ALL LAND THAT IS DESTROED IS REMADE AROUND THE EDGE OF THE CREATER< IN A RIM! YOU THERFOR COULD NOT DESTROY THE MAP IF YOU WANTED TO! MEALRY MOVE THE MOUNTINS AROUND A BIT (AND THEN NOT VERY FAR). I MEAN YOUD NEED OBSERD AMOUNTS OF FIRE POWER TO DO IT, THE COMANDER BLAST IN RELATION TO THE MAP DOES HARDLY ANYTHING.

Sorry for the rant fokes.

aGorm

Why cant you just take a handful fo c.aircraft and hawks and set the const aircraft to repeat order the restore terrain over an area? Or blow more holes till its all water and use amphibious tanks?


As for spelling, I think you're being terribly unffair, when I visit these forums I am in a rush to type my psts and read what I have before ym tiem runs ut,. My mum is making it harder for em t stay on and blocking all attempts to buy broadband, my school ahve finally locked me out from the network, I dont have time to proof read my posts and check spelling and to not reply to a post because of that is simply unfair and is an insult to the forum and those SY's who actively moderate. It's behaviour like that that will be the end of these forums.

First of all: Agorm, please die.

I can say I see what you say Storm, but I can't say I see what you see, or what you say that you see.

Heh, that left me confused

Landscape hardness maps will sove this problem once and for all.

Yes, right now it's the best sollution.

I have played spring, and the deformation hasn't been an issue in any games. It might become eventually but gamer's experiences will tell if it's too much or not. I personally think it's very realistic. If the battle shifts to another part of the map to attack your enemy, you could restore the less guarded and crowded area in the mean time. Besides the disadvantage is for both players.

Can I take your word for it that my 100 samsons ain't gonna stuck in bumper field force-fired by the enemy in front of his base?

And the disadvantage is doubtlessly on the attacker. If the enemy can not get into my base from two out of three sides, I'm fortunate.

Why cant you just take a handful fo c.aircraft and hawks and set the const aircraft to repeat order the restore terrain over an area? Or blow more holes till its all water and use amphibious tanks?

You are so dense bricks envy you. If you gonna be a retard and send aircons into the midst of the enemy forces, be my guest. No other players older than three would do so.

As for spelling, I think you're being terribly unffair, when I visit these forums I am in a rush to type my psts and read what I have before ym tiem runs ut,. My mum is making it harder for em t stay on and blocking all attempts to buy broadband, my school ahve finally locked me out from the network, I dont have time to proof read my posts and check spelling and to not reply to a post because of that is simply unfair and is an insult to the forum and those SY's who actively moderate. It's behaviour like that that will be the end of these forums.

1. You make no kind of sense. Somebody shot your logic in the face.
2. Connection is irrellevant to typing.
3. If anyone is an insult to these forums, it's you.
4. If you don't have time to spellcheck, you probably don't have time to read what you reply to either, since that takes a lot longer time. Ergo, you don't have a clue of what you reply to, which means your presense on these forums is utterly meaningless.

Bottomline: Learn to fucking spell!!

If I was you Storm Id shut the hell up right now. You are clearly rude and obnoxios. You should probablie grow up, because although Alantai and I may be quite young, were clearly way more mature than you.

Sure I had a Rant. Everybody does. It was for a good reason. Everyone seems to be ripping the **** out of Alantai for no good reason.
And the other half of my rant was because you all seem to have compleatly forgoten what he SY's said in the first place. They said that the amount of land wil never change as its created at the same rate as it is destroied.

Calling us names is just as dense as Alantai's tactics apparently are. Get of your high horse.

And have you actully played spring. Becasue you can hardly say that wont work when you haven't tried it befor.

And another thing. For Alantai its not just time on the net its time on the computer full stop. He's been banded for being smarter than the teachers at his school (not hard IT staff are almost always stupid, I got baned for know how to use excel once) and he only gets a little time at home because his mum doesn't like the computer. Being online or not makes no difference she'll still want him off the computer.

Somebody shot your logic in the face.

Infact... i think that applies to ur logic more than his.

It looks like the sides are becomeing more eveident, IE loads of people are needlesly biased against Alantai (and possibley me aswell, i mean what the hell have i done other than that last rant?), and the nice people that acctully seem to accept others opinions and take into acount others dilemers.

Bottomline: Get a grip, stop cussing people and learn to get on.

aGorm

aGorm wrote:If I was you Storm Id shut the hell up right now. You are clearly rude and obnoxios.

About the terrain deformation:

The actual terrain deformation is making hard for the units, especially tanks, to move through battle zones as we all can see. They are getting bogged down in those holes.

However,
Notice that much less units are leaving they're carcasses.

The fact is that in the old TA, the movement was just as dificult (if not more) but because of a diferent thing. Because of the units corpses.

Now we have the holes but we have less corpses.

The main change from old TA is that less metal is beeing left on the battlefield and not the dificulty units have to pass the battlefield, which seems to me about the same.

First to answer the serious people:

The main change from old TA is that less metal is beeing left on the battlefield and not the dificulty units have to pass the battlefield, which seems to me about the same.

A well said point, but attacking with 20 Samsons in OTA would leave say, 18 corpses. Same thing in TA would leave an unknown multiple of deep craters. And thus this bug is very easily exploited right now.

If I was you Storm Id shut the hell up right now. You are clearly rude and obnoxios. You should probablie grow up, because although Alantai and I may be quite young, were clearly way more mature than you.

Or else you... ban me for making entire posts in ALL CAPS?

And unfortunately, my denser brother, I can impossible relate your previous post to be even within fifty parsecs of mature, and you are lecturing me? Please forgive me for laughing, but your double-morals have just set my bed on fire.

And the other half of my rant was because you all seem to have compleatly forgoten what he SY's said in the first place. They said that the amount of land wil never change as its created at the same rate as it is destroied.

For your relevance, I completely disregard posts written in all caps - I delete them without mercy. As for the point itself, it's completely irrelevant to what I said.

And have you actully played spring. Becasue you can hardly say that wont work when you haven't tried it befor.

For you, I'll take this slow: My main reference is video 15, where I can see tanks get stuck in craters within few minutes of game time and with relatively few weapons firing. Instantly, I realise the opportunities to exploit this bug to build vehicle-impassable trenches in front of your base by force-firing a few MTS on the ground.

Now, since I never laid my hands on the spring engine myself, I listen carefully and reply to users who have that experience, like Sean MIrrsen - an old friend of mine - and Redfish. What also unite them both is their ability to talk about relevant stuff and ahead of all, ake sense, not to mention several very clever points. For their replies, I respect them.

Everyone seems to be ripping the **** out of Alantai for no good reason.

Calling us names is just as dense as Alantai's tactics apparently are. Get of your high horse.

I have no high horse. I have an absolute distaste for people without any grasp of basic english trying to lecture me in completely irrelevant, made up references that don't have any connection to anything I've ever said. And then after your previous post, you try to tell me how to behave. Heh, if you can have a rant of that magnitude, why can't I have ten posts filled with subtle insults against your reasoning capabilities?

And another thing. For Alantai its not just time on ... blahblah ... banned ... blahblah... poor Alantai...

I don't care.

Infact... i think that applies to ur logic more than his.

Oh well, you just made it personal. To everyone else, I'm sorry for what I'm doing, but logic must preservere. First, let us examine Alantai's statement, the one that makes no kind of sense.

As for spelling, I think you're being terribly unffair, when I visit these forums I am in a rush to type my psts and read what I have before ym tiem runs ut,. My mum is making it harder for em t stay on and blocking all attempts to buy broadband, my school ahve finally locked me out from the network, I dont have time to proof read my posts and check spelling and to not reply to a post because of that is simply unfair and is an insult to the forum and those SY's who actively moderate. It's behaviour like that that will be the end of these forums.

And then concentrate on the translation of specific paths in this scripture:

My mother refuses to buy broadband and makes it harder for me to stay online, at the same time as my school purged me from the nework, which in hindsight means that I don't have time to proofread my posts for spelling misstakes, grammar errors or eventual sense, meaning that it is excessively unfair and a direct insult to the whole forum and the moderators to not post because of that.

If you see how this thing is helt together, shout. Otherwise, this entire sentence should be taken out and shot. Ergo, you fail.

Bottomline: If thy don't know what to say, don't.

First, the topical bit...

If you look at the vid 15 you can clearly see that the main cause of the tanks getting bogged down is infact because the area was previosly covered with mines. Mines are expected to make big holes.
Both Sean MIrrsen and Redfish seem to think that theres not realy a problem, although they agree that a hardness map would be a good idea (i infact agree with that... doesn't mean that the current amount is rong for bog standred land though.)

The argument bit...
Out of about 300 posts, i have had 1 in all caps. (appart for the odd YOU GUYS ROCK!! type post...)
You cant say someones imature just because you realy pissed them off and hence forced them into using full caps.
And the second half of the rant wasn't at you it was the idots that still think that you could sink the whole entire map with enough time and fire power. The pot holes didn't come into that rant atall.

How so is it "Ergo, you fail. " What have i tryed to achive that i can fail on? That sentence makes less sence than Alantais.

From your other posts you seem to be an alright guy, but this is just shear bitchary.

aGorm

The argument bit...
Out of about 300 posts, i have had 1 in all caps. (appart for the odd YOU GUYS ROCK!! type post...)

Out of 300 posts, I saw one. What did you expect?

How so is it "Ergo, you fail. " What have i tryed to achive that i can fail on? That sentence makes less sence than Alantais.

His. Sentence. Find. Logic.

I just typed a load of stuff... but its dissapered into the http://WWW...

so ill retype it shorter.

How can you miss 300 post!?!?!?! thats a 8th of all posts!

He clearly means that, just becasue he has no time dosen't mean he cant make valid points even if they are miss typed in a rush.

his post saying that was rushed so i cant blame you for miss reading it... however i can blame you and all the others that do for riping into him about his lack of puctionation and grammer, if you aint got anything nice to say you should say nothing, not bitch about it.

thers a few points missing but thats the genral jist.

aGorm

Gentlemen, please... the point is somewhat moot now.

I know... and the topic itself is getting lost in the bitchary... but I cant stand it when people take the stand hes taking. It pathetic. Admitadly im then in the rong for replying but hay... someonme has to stand up for the little guy. I suggest we stop the argument here.

aGorm

How can you miss 300 post!?!?!?! thats a 8th of all posts!

I have 9000 posts at TAUniverse, but that doesn't mean you read them.

He clearly means that, just becasue he has no time dosen't mean he cant make valid points even if they are miss typed in a rush.

Sadly, he doesn't even make a point. Instead of spewing several angry paragraphs of incomprehensible jizz, type two nice sentences and that'd be a-ok.

his post saying that was rushed so i cant blame you for miss reading it... however i can blame you and all the others that do for riping into him about his lack of puctionation and grammer, if you aint got anything nice to say you should say nothing, not bitch about it.

If you don't have anything credible to say, say nothing... and his posts don't even vaguely resemble the definition of credible. Learn to spell or go join the StarCraft community.

Storm wrote:I'm completely against the idea of taks deforming terrain solely by themselves, as I'm quite sure the effort to create this effect would be unnecessarily heavy and would rise at least two hundred undead bugs.

Can you specify why you think it would create so many bugs? Construction units that build on damaged terrain are already set to restore it first, so I don't see why tanks could not have the same effect in a more localized manner. The only real problem I can foresee is that it could look weird/unnatural.
As for the effort needed to implement that... why don't we let the SYs decide? They know their code, and they know how much time they have! After all, they took time to implement falling trees, which was a joke at the same time as a feature. Personally I think the effort would be very worthwhile, because eventually we'll need construction units or some kind of bulldozers to be able to restore terrain anywhere. And farther in the future, terraforming units would be very cool, to create trenches or ridges - it's one of the feature that people bring up most often.

Can you specify why you think it would create so many bugs? Construction units that build on damaged terrain are already set to restore it first, so I don't see why tanks could not have the same effect in a more localized manner. The only real problem I can foresee is that it could look weird/unnatural.

What would happen if a convoy rolled over a mountain or through a valley. Well, hopefully nothing, but the bugs would pop up there. And yes, you're right, the worst thing is that it looks wierd/unnatural, but isn't that something we don't want?

Leveling the ground under structure is a completely different thing, by the way, it's just for convenience.

As for the effort needed to implement that... why don't we let the SYs decide?

I have never taken that from them. In fact, it's always up to them.

Personally I think the effort would be very worthwhile, because eventually we'll need construction units or some kind of bulldozers to be able to restore terrain anywhere. And farther in the future, terraforming units would be very cool, to create trenches or ridges - it's one of the feature that people bring up most often.

Now that is a completley different matter. A Bulldozer would be quite handy...

First bulldozers, then bulldozers with guns, then an entire sub-class of combat bulldozers, excavators, and melee tractors. It will all come to the same thing, only the other way around.

First construction units, then construction units with guns, then entire sub-class of combat construction units.

... never happened.

Didn't happen with radar units, jammer units, ressurection units, transport units, repair units or infiltrator units. Why dozers?

the original point was good. I was thinking of exactly the same thing when watching video 15. Would be nice if the mapper can determine the hardness of different areas of the map, but let's see how big of a problem the SYs think of this.
As to all the flaming, it's kind of funny to read them. Some people need to play nice, some others need to get a slight better grip on fast typing, and some need to do both.