Spring RTS Engine

zK uses chiliUI so to have zK UI one would have to use that, too.
Matter of taste aside, I think it misses some things required for XTA, for example Share Sliders (on Resource bars) or Initial Queue

Here's a analogue to the problem we have: http://www.flowtown.com/blog/9-websites ... he-1990s-2

Lots of colored stuff, animated gifs and flash, everything blinks and flickers and gets in the way of seeing what is going on...
Reminds me more of games having too much GUI, which XTA does not.

It is better than the default ui, but what Pene is saying is that it lacks polish in key areas. Not a big deal if you guys are going to have someone come in and clean up the design.

"We can not have individual skins for all graphical widgets."
yes you can. each control can not only have it's own skin selection you can alter parts..



or

"can not" as in "should not"...

why not?

"a nice UI is consistent"

"We can not have individual skins for all graphical widgets."

There are many widgets and not all are written by the authors that wrote Chili, so how are you going to accomplish this? By rewriting each widget?

Besides, I don't like that UI you just posted, I think it consists moslty of Chili. It's messy. I like the minimalistic design. No popup-windows, instead leave space for the actual game.

And rounded rectangles are so 2006.

knorke wrote:Lots of colored stuff, animated gifs and flash, everything blinks and flickers and gets in the way of seeing what is going on...
Reminds me more of games having too much GUI, which XTA does not.

True. But I mean't it as an example of not being consistent or thought-through. But it also applies for the screen-cluttering that zK uses.

knorke wrote:"a nice UI is consistent"

Some elements need different skins. The buttons in the research items and the buttons in the unit selection are such things.

Jools wrote:

"We can not have individual skins for all graphical widgets."

There are many widgets and not all are written by the authors that wrote Chili, so how are you going to accomplish this? By rewriting each widget?

yes and you act like it is SUCH a tremendous amount of work. most useful widgets have no ui component

Jools wrote:Besides, I don't like that UI you just posted, I think it consists moslty of Chili. It's messy. I like the minimalistic design. No popup-windows, instead leave space for the actual game.

Your game had less data to display. I had everything out including the optional timer until the chicken queen showed up. That arrow on the side of the research tree hides it on click and glows when a new item is available.. just saying..

Jools wrote:And rounded rectangles are so 2006.

sounds strongly of bitterness.

Jools wrote:And rounded rectangles are so 2006.

That's why default skin (and smoth is following its design) has 'cut edges' :p

Ok, so cut edges are a bit more modern. But it's still old. Why do we need rectangles at all? Why not just the box without any frame?

But really, what's wrong with redui?

Well thanks for all the comments. To pepe I do undertand you're statements, but I'm also not advertising it is as a finished product. Its definitely a WIP.

Also if you want to try it out, test Bar. But be warned its a wip and rough around the edges.

Funkencool wrote:rough around the edges.

Roughness around the edges is so 2006.

CarRepairer wrote:

Funkencool wrote:rough around the edges.

Roughness around the edges is so 2006.

Wittiness award 2013!

Jools wrote:But really, what's wrong with redui?
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7767/n4.png

For one thing, the tooltip has half of the last line cut off. I thought maybe you had cropped the picture but it happens for me too.
Then I do not understand why minimap and buildmenu are connected by this half-transparent empty space?
Maybe supposed to "group" the free-floating elements a bit but is just waste of space.

RedUI resource bars are imo very similiar to default ones, so no idea what use they have.

Playerlist:
I prefer /info
It has no silly buttons that one can accidently click on and is more compact. Also shows "catching up ping" when someone reconnects.

Otherwise looks ok to me.

My GUI looks like this:
Everything "as full as it ever gets" except ally res-bar (since it was SP)
Also some explainations why I prefer the "old" default UI over other fancyness, like the one in zK.

-"hide commands" widgets to hide never-clicked buttons like "dgun", "move", "stop" etc. Only keep the state-toggle things. (actually dunno why reclaim&restore is there)This allows for...
-buildmenu big enought that most cons can show all options on same page.
In zK there are 6 or so tabs, so there is a 5-out-of-6 chance that you are in wrong tab when wanting to build something. Yes hotkeys, but if was un-lazy enough to remember hotkeys for all buildings I would not use a graphical menu at all.
-If buildmenu expands to two pages, toggle with , & . keys.
Or just , key because it circles.
-If no unit is selected, the command-menu disappears complety!
For example in zK there always stays some black box with nothing in it, what use is that?
-chat is just default one, because it is click-through and can not accidendently get in one. (same as playerlist)
-unitgroups thing on right side, only reccently started to use that. Not sure if like.

wrt design, round corners or straight lines or whatever:
Basically there is not much GUI anyway. Any "design" that gets added is just clutter.
In TA-style RTS there is minimap, buildmenu, some resource-thing. Yet some UIs make even these few things feel so cluttered and unuseful.

This also fits to interface design I think:
http://i.imgur.com/WntrM6p.gif

knorke wrote: Then I do not understand why minimap and buildmenu are connected by this half-transparent empty space? Maybe supposed to "group" the free-floating elements a bit but is just waste of space.

It's not waste of space, you can issue commands in this area, see battle etc. Build menu's size varies depending on what unit is selected, now I had Commander, who has most build options, but yes I also use hide commands to hide away most stuff. Don't know the shortcut for "Restore" so I keep that, and also Guard since that command was just improved.

knorke wrote: RedUI resource bars are imo very similiar to default ones, so no idea what use they have.

RedUI bars are smaller. Usually, you don't need that precision for resource levels, so smaller bars show just as much information and take less space. AS a matter of fact, they could be even smaller, about half the size.

knorke wrote: This also fits to interface design I think:
http://i.imgur.com/WntrM6p.gif

Yup. I agree.

Knorke is spot on about many things here. Though I don't use hide commands to such extent to hide move/stop/etc. commands, only those that make no sense, like wait and repeat on resource storages. The default XTA UI has an option to select icon grid size (3x8, 4x9, 5x11) so I usualy use the 5x11 and also can fit all build and order icons on one page, max 2, and scroll with . and , mapped to my tiltwheel. The benefit of 4x9 is that build icons are easier to recognize on lower resolutions (and 3x8 for very low res), but @ 1920x1200, 5x11 icons are very clear to see.

As for else, I always prefer a fast and responsive UI that has just what it needs, forefiting any estetics. It's functionality that counts. A useless but pretty UI is just that, useless.

knorke wrote: -"hide commands" widgets to hide never-clicked buttons like "dgun", "move", "stop" etc. Only keep the state-toggle things.

So, is this the default?

knorke wrote: This allows for...
-buildmenu big enought that most cons can show all options on same page.

I do not always use hotkeys, but it is a good feature to have. Not sure how you can "hint" there are hotkeys, that is also important.

knorke wrote: -unitgroups thing on right side, only reccently started to use that. Not sure if like.

I prefer the zk way of showing the current group status in the same place. It is handy to see the status of the group at a glance (for small groups zk will show the health bars)

What I do not like at the design (maybe because I do not know about some features, if so, please tell me ):
- hard to distinguish where a build icon starts and ends (many on green background)
- info at the bottom on the screen without background is hard to read (even in the screenshot can you read easily the information?)
- no possibility to change sound level, check the time/game time. Yes, maybe this does not help you with the game, can help with real life though. Anyhow I like that when I press "esc" in zk I can get that info
- different size text in the icons. It could be icon + tool-tip.
- same position for same actions (the repeat, maneuver should be always at the same spot) - not sure how it is currently, but having 'buttons' layed out has problems, as for example factories do not have maneuver => position for other buttons changes. In zk there is a small space dedicated to some general buttons, and there is a space dedicated to special ones.
- tool-tips for new players. I am not that new, and still I wonder sometimes about one thing or another. You can have some "disable tool-tips" somewhere (for example in the esc menu), but tooltips by default are good.

malric wrote:

knorke wrote: -"hide commands" widgets to hide never-clicked buttons like "dgun", "move", "stop" etc. Only keep the state-toggle things.

So, is this the default?

Hide commands is supplied by xta but not enabled by default. You need to turn it on using the F11 menu. By default it hides the buttons for these commands: D-Gun, Stop, Move, Patrol, Fight, Guard, Attack, Wait,Repair, Self-D. We use shortcuts for those orders, but newbies don't know those, so it makes sense to have it by default disabled.

malric wrote: - no possibility to change sound level, check the time/game time. Yes, maybe this does not help you with the game, can help with real life
though. Anyhow I like that when I press "esc" in zk I can get that info

Do it like on your TV-remote: press + to increase sound and - to decrease it. I use Esc-key for cancelling current order and deselect so I don't want it to have any other functionality.

malric wrote: - tool-tips for new players. I am not that new, and still I wonder sometimes about one thing or another. You can have some "disable tool-tips" somewhere (for example in the esc menu), but tooltips by default are good.

Well, there are tool tips. But they are down below the build orders panel.

Deadnight Warrior wrote:Knorke is spot on about many things here. Though I don't use hide commands to such extent to hide move/stop/etc. commands, only those that make no sense, like wait and repeat on resource storages.

Since a while ago those bugs are already fixed on game level, for example metal storage cannot wait, and air-repair pad cannot attack anymore.

Jools wrote:Hide commands is supplied by xta but not enabled by default. You need to turn it on using the F11 menu. By default it hides the buttons for these commands: D-Gun, Stop, Move, Patrol, Fight, Guard, Attack, Wait,Repair, Self-D. We use shortcuts for those orders, but newbies don't know those, so it makes sense to have it by default disabled.

Ok, thanks for the info. Good point about the newbies, but I think we still need an option panel which shows the relevant option for XTA and not all the widgets. I really do not like the F11 menu from usability point of view.

Jools wrote: Do it like on your TV-remote: press + to increase sound and - to decrease it. I use Esc-key for cancelling current order and deselect so I don't want it to have any other functionality.

I does not need to be "Esc". In fact it would be nicer to be a button. +/- is "hidden". I personally do not like interfaces that "hide" things (gesture interfaces on latest mobile come to mind). For me the interface should be ultra obvious at start, and then guide you on how to customize it to make it more pleasant.

Jools wrote: Well, there are tool tips. But they are down below the build orders panel.

Is it also for things like the map/energy converter/resource bars etc?

I am just commenting from what I remember, can't start the game now to check, my main point is that in my opinion the interface has quite some room for improvement even if you want to make it as simple as possible.