Spring RTS Engine

Please make a map with no hard edges. See Tropical (water) and Seth's Ravine (fog). All new maps should be designed this way so they don't look like floating platforms.

I dont like the random ramp in the middle along the diagonal Knorkes put in.

Also at that size it'll never displace DSD

AF wrote: Also at that size it'll never displace DSD

Should it?

DSD needs no replacement, it's perfect as it is, that's why its so popular.

CarRepairer wrote:Please make a map with no hard edges. See Tropical (water) and Seth's Ravine (fog). All new maps should be designed this way so they don't look like floating platforms.

I disagree. Look at grid in evo (smoth has his own implementation, etc).

forb zk uses your version... or at least something like it.

I don't agree with carp but can see his point for certain maps.

4 is the most interesting I think, nice design for games up to 3v3 at least. 14x14 seems like an ok size for it looking quickly, though expanding it to the left and top, to have more open space there, to make it 16x16.


I'd also make sure that the small lanes in the middle would be wide enough, in BA terms so that you couldn't cover the whole passage with 1 llt (ie. it needs to be >100px wide on the heightmap to achieve that).

And geos in the middle like in Knorkes pic are a bad idea, for BA at least, if you can make a geo there you've probably in a comfortable winning position anyway, but what makes geos in central positions truly bad is the possibility of Behemoth (longrange plasma tower, really cheap for what it does but only buildable on geos), which is usually a lame way to decide a game.

Making the map edges water should only be considered if it really fits on with the design. It's not that big of an issue that you should harm gameplay just for nice mapedges.

SirArtturi wrote:

AF wrote: Also at that size it'll never displace DSD

Should it?

DSD needs no replacement, it's perfect as it is, that's why its so popular.

A DSD style map that wasn't DSD that had the capacity to actually keep the water and still work for landgames would be great. This map as sktched out by Ice has many improvements that would see it work better than DSD for skirmish and AI.

Make it big then release a second version on the scale knorke suggests for 2v2

My humble vote for Zeta Island. I would love a 4-ffa map like that to play. :D

luckywaldo7 wrote:My humble vote for Zeta Island. I would love a 4-ffa map like that to play. :D

+1

MAEK THEM ALL

@knorke: Thanks for scribbling around.
I think you made/added some good new idea's to the layout.
I'll do a changed sketch, maybe even add water all around.
Thanks for the creative feedback!

@pxtl: Hi!
Zeta kinda interests me also in this way.
And i also like AI so probably will try and make this map anyway.
But first i need some training in the new mapping techniques.

@zoggop: Yes often it's best to follow you own excitement (as well).
But luckily i also get excited when more and more people get excited about some idea or map, so that kinda drives me.

@cheesecan: Hi 2 u 2!
Thanks for the compliments.
Maybe i shouldn't work out the concept art on map 4, now it's possible that a lot of people are +1-ing for teh lookz.
I think we can agree that the geo's won't make it (to the middle anyway)
And last but not least, i think i will make map 4, but with water around. (island)

@AF:
At first i liked the diagonal ramp, but i'm not sure now.
It kinda changes the idea of having a different (dangerous but sneaky) lane towards your enemy.
And what if i made #4 bigger, 16x16?
Is 20x20 a acceptable map size, or is this still quite (too) big and not stable?
On the otherhand, i did try making same maps in different sizes.. which often did-not work out.

@Johannes:
Yes, i would like to design the definitive heigthmap with the help of certain range-circles.
I already wanted to ask if some has the (some of the most common weapons in BA) ranges in pixels, so that i can easily see how wide certain paths and area's should be. Maybe there is a list of weapon-ranges?
I also agree on your vision about gameplay-vs-style-vs-mapedges.
I'm thinking i should make this one into an island as well.
This creates more attack routes, all-around, and als make sea-warfare more important, which i also like.
A "dry" version will probably be done anyway.

@Jazcash: hahah. If only the lottery would help me out

@everyone: thanks for all other feedback and talk!

This cave is perfect as it is, i think moving out, after we defeated the bear that live it is can be calle regression, and have as a replacement cave made of wood that can catch fire is surely made of phail.

DSD was good, way BAck then.. when... everything was good, because memory blocks the bad parts.

Also Ice, no offence, but while you were busy elsewhere,hunterw, Behe and Smoth+Forb (what a nice couple they make ) with some others spearheaded map design into the next generation. So DSD, compared to gehenna rising, grts*.sd7, tabulav4 and even the newer snow map, looks shitty, even though the design stood up against time.

We now know that many of the younger generations dislike maps that are not heavily "fortified", having long valleys and clear borders. We had some popUps.. like knorkes Lava map, that proofed that this "enforced" recovery breaks are liked by a lot... actually, if you look at it with the unpoisoned eyes, you see in dsd a dotBA +towerDefense in disguise as a rts title.

We have still going strong.. chickens, living from the endless bonus points, that even if you loose a chickens match, there is no sour looser (bots never get mad, i wonder why) .

Tl,dr; Best would be a heavily fortified longstretched map, with clearly defined "Warzones", lots of places that are left at peace.. and short recovery breaks.

(Lua Lava, a perfect Lightningstorm, some force of nature cutting of the stream of enemys (if those didnt get far enough to form a bridgehead)
Dont get me wrong, you can make whatever map you want. But dont expect them to be played. The degree of aweSum to keep people to a map with eyecand, whos gameplay they dislike has not yet been reached.

Tl,dr; Strategy! RealTimeStrategy never changes! The RTS has changed! Or did it? RTS never changes!

You wont get that reply out of the mouth of most devs here. Not if hell froozze over! But im the artist-asshole-Infant-terribble anyway! So here it is: "If you dont invent methods to create a even better success-simulations than most modern companys, you can not grabe the Gameplay-steerwheel-of-Time! So do something for the comunity, and meet the crowd halfway! Fucking 2!"

I ran your crater bay design map through world machine 2.2 as an example of what can be done in an hour.

I tried to keep the naming and grouping clear and easy to understand.

Open it up in WM and give it a try!

I'd say a 12x12 and a 24x24. Someone somewhere would like a 32x32 but that's probably somebody running 10 AIs in a giant skirmish, at which point I'd say take knorkes version and mirror it 4 way

1 and 4 are great, 2 and 3 look like already existing maps (especially third, there was some snow map which looks pretty much the same).

happy friday dudes

edit: don't make this map please. anything but this.

And before you know it...

Before you even get started. I want this map:

what pic is this (above)?
i want that map also!

Yeah KAISER!
With roam, that map should look proper now. Contact me if you need it baked.