Spring RTS Engine

JohannesH wrote:=Bomber micro

Nothing wrong with it

Except that it breaks the way bombers are supposed to work and fucks balance.

And yes pxtl, as soon as bombs drop, you stop, then give another attack order as soon as reload is done, which effectively lets you get 2-3 drops per pass instead of 1.

Did linebombing break TA? Did mutalisk-stacking break Starcraft?

They still have to load the same time... Except they now sit atop of aa all time. It's great technique on many circumstances but not autowin by any means.

Just because something doesn't work the way you thougt it was intended doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it, or that it makes balance worse.

It's goddamn hard to find the time to do it anyway, if you have any other units than the bombers. If someone can do it well, more power to them.

Did linebombing break TA? Did mutalisk-stacking break Starcraft?

Yes.

Next question, please.

The problem with it is that a small pack of bombers can get 2-3 loads before AA is built nearby , and you do not need to sit on top of the target, you can be quite far away, bombers seem to have feather-light bombs that travel surprisingly long distances.

The issue is that the bomber usually has to cover a wide area around the target to make a second pass, likely flying into AA, but now, with this technique, you can simply stop the bomber in AA-less place, and bomb away a considerable range around you.

Previously bombers had to be microed not to get into AA areas, but they would still at least get shot by some random AA.

Not that I mind tbh though.

JohannesH wrote: They still have to load the same time... Except they now sit atop of aa all time. It's great technique on many circumstances but not autowin by any means.

Except now that load time can be used in one location. With normal use it's either bomb, move to next target that is within reload range, and bomb again(most likely a nearby base), or bomb and turn around(much longer than reload time and a wider range of exposure which means more potential for flying into AA) and bomb again. With the exploit, you can break that. It makes bombers WAY more powerful with a huge damage output.

So...

Why is that a problem?
For most part Spring air units are quite boring and unresponsive to micro, so everyone should be happy about these advancements - you have something cool to do and not just right clicking and forgetting.

Also it's not a new technique at all.

Anything that could be "broken" in any way by this is possibly bomber starts in 1v1 is too strong, and I'd like to see Hobojoe or Pxtl demonstrating that... And even that would be better fixed by adding a few seconds of buildtime to airlab or such, not by totally shutting down the nice micro technique.

Pxtl wrote:

Did linebombing break TA? Did mutalisk-stacking break Starcraft?

Yes.

Next question, please.

Next question could be, is there any non-broken RTS by that criteria?

It involves exploiting a property of bombers not known by many people that gives you an unintended and unfair advantage, rendering 'Balanced' Annihilation, unbalanced.

Omg, the player who knows more about the game has an advantage??

Clicking and microing?

Dude, make a widget.

It's not really "knowing more about the game" because its so simple and anybody can do it. I hate to use the word but it could be described as a hack.

Edit: With 2 t1 bombers you can destroy somebody's base entirely in 1 sweep, and in 2 bombing runs you can kill their commander. This is obviously not right.

Sucky_Lord wrote:unfair advantage,

lmao, put on repeat ? u say stuff like this every time, its like suing me coz im smarter than u, awesome reasoning

using the questionable behavior caused by the wait command to make bombers hover sounds pretty gay

insta-fix by increasing reload time closer to the time taken to do a normal pass

I agree that bombers shouldn't stop, hover, then land on the spot with the wait command, they should be following their normal landing behaviour on the spot they're on if told to wait (ie circle and land) or act as if they've been set to 'Fly' and move to that spot - that's an engine bug.

Look forward to some kind of manual fix for bombing on the spot like this in 7.16

Thanks TFC, looking forward to the fix.