Spring RTS Engine

Gota wrote:there is a notion ATM,held by many,that Spring will only get players if it remains very uncompetitive

Not exactly. Having a competitive aspect is good, it's what makes hard core people stick. Also, competitive players are much more loud mouthed than casual ones, so you want to please them to get a good rep on the internet. But what I'm saying, is that competition is not all there is. Don't forget the less competitive players, because they still make the bulk of the players.

Satirik wrote:who tried to make a simple mission ?

I tried, made two missions for Gundam, one for Balanced Annihilation, and about 5 for Kernel Panic. Ok, they're not that interesting, and more a bunch of preplaced units than actual scripted missions, but I did try.

Jazcash wrote:People should only have to download an installer, install it and be able to start playing right away.

That's what I aimed at with my KP installer. I had added it to download page, but some people thought newb-friendly installer shouldn't be linked in Spring official download page, and moved it a couple pages away.

malric wrote:

forest_devil wrote: as a still relatively new player. biggest off putting thing about spring is the player base.

70% of us are trolling arseholes that rage at newbies for being newbies tbh i still have days were i want to give up on it entirely.

Still, I think it depends on mod. In my experience XTA and NOTA are more newbie friendly than BA...

A single player campaign would help a lot. Then people would have time/know units/buildings before going to an aggressive multi-player game.

other mods have less arseholes because they have less players.
newbs dont want competitive matches 90% of the time. they want to learn the game. instinctively join the largest game availible (we all know the map and mod) because they think "hey most people in this one that way more people to copy and to teach me" or some variation and hey they are last to place as they are un sure and get whooped and moaned at.

and smurfing doesn't help. because i think some people dont link low rank to newbie any more. more low rank to hey its a smurf and must be a pro.

find new players on a mod/game basis not an engine basis. and tutor them how to play ur mod/game in some way (missions tutorials actual games or what ever just something) before they end up in the deep end with the nasty fish


/me out

judging by this thread, i would guess that if gota was 20 years younger and lived on a silly island in europe his name would be jazcash.


also greatballsclan for lyfe

the problemthat spring related games have is the temptation of the MOAR of everything, while competitive games, games with high accesability, live from a reducing to the basics and the combinations the players can tweak out of this basics. KP and NB the early days showed how its done. Making a mod with 8 Units, perfecting that and balancing out, would solve that.

INB4 SC┬▓ has way moar units and spellz. Yes, it haz, but how many do you have to remember, to play a decent rush and crush against a noob?
Its kind of hard for the designers though, resisting the urge and temptation to add MOAR.

So really this thread is a feature request thread for ranked games, profiles, and achievements, dressed up as a discussion?

Jazcash wrote:

• Find the right Spring download for system and download it
• Open up the installer and click yes to everything
• Whoops I clicked next to fast and now I can't see what that option was that I should have probably had a look at
• Hmm, what's this? Where's the actual game? Spring.exe doesn't do a lot (No maps or mods yet)
• Hmm, what's this SpringLobby thing?
• Oh, it's a lobby client? Error error update update lots of confusing buttons
• Oh I need maps and mods to play?
• Which mod is best? Which maps do I need?
• So, what do I click now?
• Finally gets into a game
• Waits for about 10 minutes
• Gets ingame - Woah, wtf, there's like a billion options...
• Get trash talked cause you're a newb
• Get kicked cause you're a newb or not doing a lot cause you dunno what to do
• Finally get another game
• Get pwned cause you're a newb
• Leave Spring

• Select your game(s).
• Click on Join a Battle

Man, that was easy. http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AUok- ... kOHI&hl=en

Wow that looks really good. Thats the best attempt of a userfriendly spring-client i have seen so far. This should be the first thing a new user gets after installing spring.

I think an end user shouldnt be ask to download the game engine, then the game, rather they should download a game that comes with the engine.

Its like Valve asking us to download and configure the source engine, then install steam on top, then install all the games one by one, then download all our maps.

True, but spring isnt source. Its community and playerbase is much too small to separate game and engine completely. If you do so, only BA would survive.

Its community and playerbase is much too small to separate game and engine completely

This +100 and can not be repeated often enough.

Its like Valve asking us to download and configure the source engine, then install steam on top, then install all the games one by one, then download all our maps.

(assuming map+mod autodownload work, ie with springdownloader.exe) It is more like installing steam, then you click what you want to play, content is downloaded, you play.

But including one map + one mod with the engine would be good imo. Just so that you can do "something" when clicking spring.exe with a new install and test if runs on your system or if you sync in lobby and whatnot.
Just a simple "spring demo mod" with a few tanks and a small map would maybe add 5MB? Imo that is worth it.

caldera wrote:Wow that looks really good. Thats the best attempt of a userfriendly spring-client i have seen so far. This should be the first thing a new user gets after installing spring.

There are currently about 2 dozen users of this client already, nearly all of them new people who have just recently joined Spring.

knorke wrote:

Its community and playerbase is much too small to separate game and engine completely

This +100 and can not be repeated often enough.

Its like Valve asking us to download and configure the source engine, then install steam on top, then install all the games one by one, then download all our maps.

(assuming map+mod autodownload work, ie with springdownloader.exe) It is more like installing steam, then you click what you want to play, content is downloaded, you play.

But including one map + one mod with the engine would be good imo. Just so that you can do "something" when clicking spring.exe with a new install and test if runs on your system or if you sync in lobby and whatnot.
Just a simple "spring demo mod" with a few tanks and a small map would maybe add 5MB? Imo that is worth it.

What should be done is that every project has its own installer as it is a separate game.
The spring website must be about engine development and communication between game makers,engine devs lobby devs map makers etc...
It should not be a part dev forum part community garbage dump..

Ideally every game should have It's own website and the Spring website should not be where you get your games from.

Since TA derived games share so much they can possibly be batched into 1 package with a small website with a forum where the playing community can "bond".

knorke wrote:Just a simple "spring demo mod" with a few tanks and a small map would maybe add 5MB? Imo that is worth it.

That's the size of KP! Well, almost, KP is 5.9MB, and KP maps are ~100kb each.

Gota wrote:What should be done is that every project has its own installer as it is a separate game.

I doubt every mod-maker will redo and re-release his own installer as soon as the engine update.

Than he wont have a working game..

Then the community won't have working games.

Petah wrote:I gave up trying to be competitive because the really good players are always better then the average-good players, and most competitive players are really good.

Its no fun getting you ass womped in 5 mins a pissing around for another 20 waiting for them to finish you off.

sounds like you've been playing with 8D too much

Sausage wrote:

Petah wrote:I gave up trying to be competitive because the really good players are always better then the average-good players, and most competitive players are really good.

Its no fun getting you ass womped in 5 mins a pissing around for another 20 waiting for them to finish you off.

sounds like you've been playing with 8D too much

lol

Gota wrote: Competitiveness is treated like something to be feared of,like something that will keep players out.

"Competitive" games are repetitive imho.
These players like to perfection their skills doing the same over and over again.
If you look in the game list of some esports league you wont find extremely complex games.

If you ask me "do you want to start playing cs" Ill answer "no because some idiot who plays this game for 10 years jumps around the corner and shoots me in the head."

Having competitive players doesnt make a game bad its rather a good thing.
What makes games loved by competitive gamers is simplicity.
In many rts games clicking quickly is most important.

The question is how you want to draw in competitive players.

Machete234 wrote:

Gota wrote: Competitiveness is treated like something to be feared of,like something that will keep players out.

"Competitive" games are repetitive imho.
These players like to perfection their skills doing the same over and over again.
If you look in the game list of some esports league you wont find extremely complex games.

If you ask me "do you want to start playing cs" Ill answer "no because some idiot who plays this game for 10 years jumps around the corner and shoots me in the head."

Having competitive players doesnt make a game bad its rather a good thing.
What makes games loved by competitive gamers is simplicity.
In many rts games clicking quickly is most important.

The question is how you want to draw in competitive players.

true but competitiveness brings players and spring needs more players

Id like to be able to play a game every time of the day, dont get me wrong im not against competitive gamers or more spring gamers.

The type of people were looking for might be good gamers but are often computer noobs. (not like you people who develop games as a hobby)
What they want is "heres your game, play it".
So it should be easy to install, and spring isnt.
Imagine linux 10 years ago it was a pain in the ass, today a lot of people like ubuntu because its almost fool proof.