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Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 02 Mar 2010, 20:45
by Tribulex
k now im done with modoption and with blacklisting gui widgets.
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 12 Mar 2010, 23:03
by Spawn_Retard
I'd prefer to be able to keep alot of my lua thank you.
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 12 Mar 2010, 23:27
by babbles
Spawn_Retard wrote:I'd prefer to be able to keep alot of my lua thank you.
COMM NAP WARNING!COMM NAP WARNING!COMM NAP WARNING!
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Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 13 Mar 2010, 07:12
by Tribulex
yeah i agree with babbles, spawn's opinion in this thread cant really be taken seriously.
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 09:30
by Spawn_Retard
one widget i can turn off, woopdey doo.
fucking hell its hardly a reason to turn them off altogether.
infact that widget prevents me from being napped, and i can easily re-edit it so it doesn't spam the field with that shit.
Look at SA and CA for people hating having their widgets limited.
EDIT: also trib, don't talk to me, or about me in any thread, because trying to shit upon a opinion thats different to yours just makes you look like a tit.
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 10:03
by JohannesH
How is it good for a game that people can get advantage by spending hours tweaking their UI/automicro/whatever? Theres so many stupid things you can do with widgets, that were never intended possible and can really ruin the game as soon as someone goes and makes that widget.
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 11:21
by Spawn_Retard
malicious lua is only known to like 5% of the spring community, and the rest are lua that actually help people play.
the pros outweigh the cons for lua
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 12:11
by manolo_
Spawn_Retard wrote:
Look at SA and CA for people hating having their widgets limited.
EDIT: also trib, don't talk to me, or about me in any thread, because trying to shit upon a opinion thats different to yours just makes you look like a tit.
+1
and if u want to implement it, i'll ask an other dev to make a blacklist-free version of xta
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 12:16
by zwzsg
JohannesH wrote:How is it good for a game that people can get advantage by spending hours tweaking their UI/automicro/whatever? Theres so many stupid things you can do with widgets, that were never intended possible and can really ruin the game as soon as someone goes and makes that widget.
Spending hours tweaking your automicro widgets takes skills, it should be properly rewarded.
In fact writing an automicro widget takes way more skills than honing your manual micro, I say we should disable manually microing units, that ruin the game and was never intended. No really, if you look at how Spring was designed, where it is rooted, where the dev are heading it, you'll see manual micro is definitively not intended while automation are encouraged.
So, yeah, you should remove all manual micro from the game! Makes a gadget that limit APM to 20, and that enforce a cool down of 30s between each order to the same unit, or else the mad gosu have too much an unfair advantage.
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 13:10
by manolo_
zwzsg wrote:
So, yeah, you should remove all manual micro from the game! Makes a gadget that limit APM to 20, and that enforce a cool down of 30s between each order to the same unit, or else the mad gosu have too much an unfair advantage.
ever fought with to storm/crahser lines vs an other with com with thr same units? 30 s would destroy the whole game (and yes i dont like auto-micro widgets for scouts/coms [walk away from airtrans])
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 13:47
by knorke
is there even a decent auto micro widget?
like this autoswarm thing ca has isnt really that great.
as long as its on this level i dont really care if somebody wants to use that.
only thing that is stupid if the widget can do things a human can not do, like make a rocko fire at planes with lead aiming etc or similiar.. (can not click in mid air)
probally not possible, but if in replays waypoints set by widgets would appear ie blue instead of green that would make it less problematic because everybody can see what others are using etc.
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 14:04
by JohannesH
zwzsg wrote:JohannesH wrote:How is it good for a game that people can get advantage by spending hours tweaking their UI/automicro/whatever? Theres so many stupid things you can do with widgets, that were never intended possible and can really ruin the game as soon as someone goes and makes that widget.
Spending hours tweaking your automicro widgets takes skills, it should be properly rewarded.
In fact writing an automicro widget takes way more skills than honing your manual micro, I say we should disable manually microing units, that ruin the game and was never intended. No really, if you look at how Spring was designed, where it is rooted, where the dev are heading it, you'll see manual micro is definitively not intended while automation are encouraged.
So, yeah, you should remove all manual micro from the game! Makes a gadget that limit APM to 20, and that enforce a cool down of 30s between each order to the same unit, or else the mad gosu have too much an unfair advantage.
Sure, go ahead and make that game with limited clicks. Making it into an existing Spring game though does similar thing to playing with free widget use, it totally distorts the way the game is played. And afaik most spring games arent designed for straight on widget assault, theres some pretty simply done things too like spotting buildings outside los from ground deformation. Or builders being nearly invincible to most long-range non-laser attacks on flat ground cause of nanoblock. And so on, thats the kind of gameplay you get if you fully embrace widgets...
And by all means, make the APM limiting game if you fancy. I might even try it. Its just that every game shouldnt be like that, like every game shouldnt have free widgets, when they are not specifically designed for that interface.
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 14:20
by Tribulex
The idea of disabling user lua spawns from a couple of things:
- Pointspam (but this was fixed with latest spring version)
- Unit marking and ghost radar (Jools and I were talking about how you cant cleverly hide a fusion in the trees or do other things that were possible in TA. Also scouting has been reduced to right clicking in the enemy base and watching the chat as points appear. Finally, ghosted radar is a major advantage.)
- Automicro (in a game where micro is so important, this is an issue. Also noobs install things like the dgun "helper" widget and the autoswarm widget, and they get killed because their units stop responding.)
- Gui conflicts (user gui lua will most definitely muck up the xta ui)
This pretty much just leaves shaders, teamplatters, and the like. I plan to put teamplatters as an option in blade for xta, and of course night shader, xray shader, obama shader, noraus's bloom, and the depth of field shader (plus any that others recommend) will be included and all ON by default.
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 14:39
by manolo_
JohannesH wrote:
Or builders being nearly invincible to most long-range non-laser attacks on flat ground cause of nanoblock.
how? never heard of that? so nanolaser hides them, is it a spring bug?
Code: Select all
Gui conflicts (user gui lua will most definitely muck up the xta ui)
thats why i prefer my own customized one
and all ON by default
will lead to this
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 14:46
by knorke
how? never heard of that? so nanolaser hides them, is it a spring bug?
i think nanoblock = starting a building so the projectile gets stopped by the green nanoframe.
The listed reasons why some user lua is bad for gameplay are true and I support this.
But a question, will this also block user lua in replays?
I am workin on some replay analyzer thing that needs a lua widget running during the replay.
So if you could do something like
if (Spring.IsReplay = false) do not block user lua
that would be cool.
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 14:58
by Tribulex
oh! excellent idea knorke. Thanks for that. What about if all widgets are off by default in replay (so as not to mess stuff up), but then you can turn them on, and they get saved to a replay settings lua file?
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 15:04
by knorke
hm, things that have no use in replays (like buildbars etc) should definitely get turned off.
other things like ie minimapsize, i am not sure, might be confusing if you have to config some things twice?
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 15:09
by pintle
2 minor points of pedantry:
@Zwswg: There is no way in hell that writing some scripts is remotely comparable to the skill required to juggle multiple meaningful decisions in real time, which are informed from constantly changing parameters, and the necessary skill in executing said decisions efficiently.
@nanoblocking: UNFOLD TIME! The only unit that can effectively nano block in XTA is the Commander; you can do it with mass air cons, but anything breathes on them and they all die.
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 15:35
by JohannesH
pintle wrote:@nanoblocking: UNFOLD TIME! The only unit that can effectively nano block in XTA is the Commander; you can do it with mass air cons, but anything breathes on them and they all die.
wrong.
Re: Disabling User Lua
Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 15:36
by manolo_
knorke wrote:how? never heard of that? so nanolaser hides them, is it a spring bug?
i think nanoblock = starting a building so the projectile gets stopped by the green nanoframe.
k thx, did this manually in nota spacebugs with llt or radar :)