Spring RTS Engine

OK:

if you are only re-balancing, that means you are only making unit.fbi changes right? anyone can make changes to unit.fbi files. You dont need to be some hotshot modder who is really good at modding (but has lots of rl too). In-fact, all you actually need are a few rainy afternoons and notepad so I don't think this counts as 'IMANOUNCIN' MAH MOD!'

getting people to play a BA mutator different matter but that depends greatly on the popularity and charisma of the people fronting and hosting the mod.

Triton is a good player, so he has at least a slim chance of getting recognized.

So, changes I would like to see:

K-bot E-cost
E-cost of building AK + PW per tick closer to the cost of building Flash/Gator per tick (right now it is 250% more).
Something closer to 175% more would make them a little more massable (and bots not quite as weak in melee very early game)

Stumpy/Raider
Raider made as effective as stumpy
Stumpy/Raider made slower to reduce the effectiveness of the 10 minute mark stumpy spam.

T2 labs
T2 labs made more attainable, counterbalanced with more expensive cons to discourage early tech sharing

T1 Artillery
made useful

Atlas
without removing its ability to nap, make it less effective at doing so- higher cruise alt (so missiles get LoS on it earlier), reduced speed and turning, possibly increase cost.

i have been wanting to do something similar, but i think AA would be the way to go. Caydr is lurking but armed and ready if someone sticks their fork in his steak.

d_b wrote:i have been wanting to do something similar, but i think AA would be the way to go. Caydr is lurking but armed and ready if someone sticks their fork in his steak.

dude Caydr lost motivation on like day 2,

Stumpy/raider have to be better balanced yes, ill buff raider of nerf stumpy

T2 lab will cost less metal and energy and T2 cons will cost more ressources, but i am still thinking about how much, also T2 air shouldnt cost less metal or T1 air have to be different (we have to discuss about this)

T1 arty have to be better yes its still a pile of crap, first i think its shouldnt be so slow to hit something, and we still can increase damages and speed.

Atlas could move slower according to mass transported.

Bladewings is fastest unit in ba 7.04, it can be a bit slower.

Zeus are a bit op, whereas fido sucks. I want to fix that.

Commanders explosion have to be slighly smaller, and it should make less damages when it explose in the air.

Selfd com to have 2500 metal is op, it should be 1500 or something close

T2 aa have to be better, example more range, screamer and mercury have to be different atm it sucks.

Metal makers have to be less effective also moho mex 's income should be less good.

Reclaiming metal have to be slower, not like sa or ca, just slighly slower

Nanos have to cost more and to be slighly more effective.

I am not sure on the good way to balance water versus ground i need suggestions.

Mobile shield can be a good unit.

I am pretty sure on 75% changes here if u disagree lets discuss about it, if u want to troll plz forget that topic..

ILL RELEASE FIRST VERSION NEXT WEEK
if you want to help join pa channel on lobby.

LOL at the totally disproportionate flaming...

A lot of the actual people who play on this engine will really appreciate what Triton is doing... maybe not in dev land, but I'm a lot of sure the people who actually log in and play will appreciate this...

On a side note, Argh, understanding balance and making an interesting and dynamic unit interaction/economy IS game design, and it is where both Nanoblobs and PURE failed big time.

Aside from obvious shit, like making bots viable, and nerfing medium tanks, what about some other things?

Setting up the t1 kbots SA style would be way better than the retarded rez bot set up currently in place.

Removing amphib con from veh lab list would help bring more diversity to games too.

Make mines worth using!

T2 bots need a pretty substantial revamp imo... fatboy, fido, pyro, termite, can, peli (missile wont hit ground :<) all could use some love.

Wombat wrote:whatever u say it IS MOST BALANCED mod

Quite simply, not true.

Wombat wrote:u steal someones mod and modify it a bit to call it own.

Every *A mod is based on stolen content genius.

lucky - like what ? CA, XTA, Cursed, Gundam, Winter? these are not copies of ba... pa will be just second a sa.

pintle - can u tell me which mod is more balanced than ba ? i can wait, no need to be hurry

Pick a mod where the unit set actually sees ~50% use in competitive games, copy paste in response to Wombat's question.

Define balance in objective terms pls.

Find a method for quantifying it.

Wombat you dribbling moron, BA was a mod of AA which was a mod of Uberhack which was a mod of TA. The entire project has been derivative work since it was conceived. It is built fundamentally on repackaging and releasing other people's work. If you have been trolling this long, this hard, and have never been able to understand that basic premise, there really is no hope for you.

"You take AA and nerf wezel a bit and call it BA"

Can we get back on topic maybe?

do i need to use other language to get answer for my question ? looks like im not the moron here

Wombat wrote:lucky - like what ? CA, XTA, Cursed, Gundam, Winter? these are not copies of ba... pa will be just second a sa.

Lucky said *A mods. CA and XTA are based on the same (stolen) content as BA, though CA is moving away from it as fast as it can.

Cursed, Gundam et. al. are not *A mods.

pintle - can u tell me which mod is more balanced than ba ? i can wait, no need to be hurry

I think we all know my answer to this one.

trust me i know that, lets say, cursed has nothing to do with any Annihilation, i got eyes, i still dont understand what the origin of mods got anything to do with my post it's just a relation between ba - pa so i dont give a crap about any other mods right now. does taking ba and nerfing stump isnt really stealing THC's few years of work ?

TFC only took over fairly recently, originally it was NOIZE.

The license of BA and the current license holder permits and endorses this effort.
How does that make it stealing? It doesnt. This is what its all about, as long as you give credit where credit is due.

Any further off topic discussion of licensing, which mod is more balanced, etc will be culled from this topic.

so you want to make a ba mutator? why not just post in the ba forum..


here is a THOUGHT....

lets say you make this as a mutator. BA is meant to be a stable core. However, your project if it was a neat mutator could be included WITH ba. Meaning that the mutator is an optional expansion if you will.

I don't object to changes, I object to yet another project that consists mainly of notepad fuckery and idea guying. Yes this guy might be a decent player and competitive players may have a decent understanding of units. HOWEVER, they inevitably skew the balance to what they want to see to support their gameplay style. Arguements like OP and UP often times center around a game that X player lost or won.. when sometimes it is just that Xplayer likes that unit. However, the moment you take an OP unit and nerf it, you break balance and players hate you for it.

I do not believe ba is balance, it is yet another iteration of what I just said. Players pushing for it to be a certain paradigm. This mod/mutator is no different just another iteration of xplayer wanting Y balance skew.

I just don't think there needs to be another full project for this sort of thing. I would understand if he really wanted to dig in and do some art and real code but he isn't. It is just another balance skew and maybe some addon lua, that really belongs in a mutator.

BA should be a mutator of aa... there should be a core TA package that all these little variants are based on. Hell I want to say that BA should do a complete freeze that way, every one of these "I have the genius of balance" guys can upload a 1-2 meg file and be done with it.

and again, I think this thread belongs in the ba forum. Until it is beyond monkeying with notepad. We have had awesome people show up post projects and disappear with more done than the op. Metropolis spring and bob's mod are two of the latest examples of people who actually do stuff and have something to show before asking for help.

Two words - play NOTA.

Now go lynch me for that ;d

And no, players won't switch from BA to any other mod. Mission impossible.

why is smoth even talking here? he doesnt play BA-Spring at all.

Achilla wrote:And no, players won't switch from BA to any other mod. Mission impossible.

People switched from XTA to AA, and from AA to BA.

I think it is a good idear because:
- Current BA developpeurs dont have time (or dont want to) make any significative changes. Remember the last "HUGE" change was the tiny change between weasel and jeffy and pople talk about it for weeks. If BA communauty take weeks to make such a huge change I dont expect any major changes in BA during the next years. However I also think lot of balance need to be done to improve the gameplay of BA, that is the reason I find it is a good idea that someone tries to make a good balance. It does not means poeple are going to like it but at least Triton will try and spend some time to it. It is far better to do that than spending time trooling and desagreeing with anyting on the forom... That is the reason I expect he will have rights to admins this forom so he can start to work insteed of answering to faggoteries.
- Because when you play 8vs8 against poeple having no clue about op moves, you can win 8vs8 alone, even if you play with noobs and against even a 8 goldstar team (which micro well but have no clue about op move).
- Because you can still loose a DSD 8vs8 game even if you killed half of the team just becasue the tecker of the ennemy team was able to rush T2 air at 14 mins, killing your (T1) fighters screen with T2 air and bombing all your bases.
-Because see fighters suck so much you just need to make a small nummber of t2 Fighters to kill them all, destroy the airaft/carrier(s) and nukes them. And I dont even speak about no berta/shield. The other way arround, overcrafts have no ability to take see control agaisnt even t1 corvette (if they are microed well enough, due to range/laser). And I dont even speak about T2 (destroyers) and their larger ranges.
....
- Because so much thing still need to be balanced (T2, T3, T1->T2 and T2->T3 mostly)
- Because Triton is not just a good player, he is also able to make compromises, and most important of all, he wont balance the game for his own playing style (which is 90% of requests about balancing). This is the reason why, I think, chances of succeding are the highest with him (even if he can fail).
- Because fewer decides-makers will speed up the process of modifying balance and get ride of the inertia of the ba-balancing process.


I think lot of (ofc not all) players will be happy to help this new projet by testing balance and improving gameplay for duel, teammatches, whatever the lvl of the players are. I know dozens who are.





PS for trolls : it is better trying to help than just say it wont work. Just wait and see.