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I thought the Tories were the British National Party.

/Edit/ I read their pamphlet and they do have some good policies, but they seem to blame too many problems on immigration and I'm not a fan of putting religion back in schools.

The Tories (the conservative party) want to give the money to the rich and cut taxes and public services, they're usually rich themselves and have a vested interest in making it easier for them to make money ( even at the cost of less well off people ). They pose under spin and new marketing now. They are a veyr old party which has resulted in it traditionally being in power or the main opposition.

The BNP are racist fascists who are trying to appear as moderate and acceptable so that when they become mainstream they can slowly reveal their true agenda. Their members and supporters have been known to physically assault those who oppose them.

JAZCASH wrote:The main reason I'd be voting BNP is because I don't want my country becoming overpowered with the Islamic superpower which is already terrorising so many countries.

The fact that the Qur'an states that any non-muslim should be slaughtered, frankly, scares me. And that's the policy which will be enforced once the muslim race is greater than the british which is happening overwhelmingly fast. You don't need figures to work that out.

The Bible actually states that Christians will be persecuted in the future...

My own little theory is that Muslims will force on their religion to the world by threating them with death if they don't. The Christians will refuse and thus bringing forth the end of the world.

Believe what your like, that's your freedom. But enjoy it whilst you can.

Bollocks you say to that? Well bollocks I say to you.

/drama

Edit: I don't agree with a lot of what the BNP says. In fact, I disagree with most politicians views on things but if there's any lesser corrupt party, it's the BNP. It doesn't matter why he changed his mind about the hollocaust. It just matters that he has.

All this nonsense about the Qu'ran, have you ever read the fucking bible? It's vile.

1 Corinthians 14:34
As in all the churches of God's holy people, women are to remain quiet in the assemblies, since they have no permission to speak: theirs is a subordinate part.

1 Timothy 6:1
All those who are under the yoke of slavery must have unqualified respect for their masters, so that the name of God and our teaching is not brought into disrepute.

Tt 2:9
Slaves must be obedient to their masters in everything, and do what is wanted without argument.

The three ancient texts of the Judeao-Christian-Islamic religion are all filled with much the same passages regarding the status of women, of spreading the faith, and waging war on heathens.

AF wrote:The Tories (the conservative party) want to give the money to the rich and cut taxes and public services, they're usually rich themselves and have a vested interest in making it easier for them to make money ( even at the cost of less well off people ). They pose under spin and new marketing now. They are a veyr old party which has resulted in it traditionally being in power or the main opposition.
.

Nah, Tories don't want to GIVE money to the rich, they just want to keep them where they are in regards to taxation. What the retarded labour party don't realise is that the problem with heavily taxing the rich is that the rich can afford to either hire accountants to fiddle the books or LEAVE THE COUNTRY, both of which means they pay less tax. heavy taxing a group with the resources to pull either one of those is fucking retarded, since you end up with LESS money after a tax HIKE.

And the only reason they cut public spending is because, like today, the labour govermint have severly fucked everything up and they have no choice to look like the bad guys by cutting shit everwhere to make up for the massive black hole of debt.

FLOZi wrote:

JAZCASH wrote:The main reason I'd be voting BNP is because I don't want my country becoming overpowered with the Islamic superpower which is already terrorising so many countries.

The fact that the Qur'an states that any non-muslim should be slaughtered, frankly, scares me. And that's the policy which will be enforced once the muslim race is greater than the british which is happening overwhelmingly fast. You don't need figures to work that out.

The Bible actually states that Christians will be persecuted in the future...

My own little theory is that Muslims will force on their religion to the world by threating them with death if they don't. The Christians will refuse and thus bringing forth the end of the world.

Believe what your like, that's your freedom. But enjoy it whilst you can.

Bollocks you say to that? Well bollocks I say to you.

/drama

Edit: I don't agree with a lot of what the BNP says. In fact, I disagree with most politicians views on things but if there's any lesser corrupt party, it's the BNP. It doesn't matter why he changed his mind about the hollocaust. It just matters that he has.

All this nonsense about the Qu'ran, have you ever read the fucking bible? It's vile.

1 Corinthians 14:34
As in all the churches of God's holy people, women are to remain quiet in the assemblies, since they have no permission to speak: theirs is a subordinate part.

1 Timothy 6:1
All those who are under the yoke of slavery must have unqualified respect for their masters, so that the name of God and our teaching is not brought into disrepute.

Tt 2:9
Slaves must be obedient to their masters in everything, and do what is wanted without argument.

The three ancient texts of the Judeao-Christian-Islamic religion are all filled with much the same passages regarding the status of women, of spreading the faith, and waging war on heathens.

Im not saying the Koran is more vile than the bible(in fact a koran copied many stuff from the bible)but when you mix some of what is in it with an uneducated populace without any history of respecting democratic values....
If i was european,living in some european country,I would not want to be accepting large numbers of immigrants,and surely not immigrants that are percentage wise,much more religious than the native population.
Unfortunately European countries are still not secular enough to have a majority with an active anti religious mindset however i can tell you for sure that you do not want to raise the % of religious people in your countries.

Israel has a higher population % that is considered religious and there is nothing positive coming out of it,and I wish both the jews and muslims here became completely secular.

taxing the rich is an issue since there is always some country that has low texes for the rich,like the US for example.

At least the Bible's nasty bits are when you're dead. Obeying your master is not a punishment. Killing innocent people is a lot more vile than any rule you'll find in the Bible.

Not to mention the Bible being a lot more believeable...

JAZCASH wrote:At least the Bible's nasty bits are when you're dead. Obeying your master is not a punishment. Killing innocent people is a lot more vile than any rule you'll find in the Bible.

Not to mention the Bible being a lot more believeable...

Leviticus 20:13
'If a man has sex with a man in same way as with a woman, they have committed an abomination. They are certainly to be put to death.'

Deuteronomy 22:28
'If a man happens to meet a virgin woman who is not engaged to be married...And he seizes her and rapes her... but is caught in the act... the rapist must pay the girl's father fifty silver shekels.She must marry the rapist, because he has violated her. And so long as he lives, he may not divorce her.'

Leviticus 7:27
'If anyone eats blood, that person must be executed.'

I said it once and I'll say it again:

Killing innocent people is a lot more vile than anything you'll find in the Bible.

If I were to rape you, I wouldn't expect to be lot off. If I didn't believe in Islam, I wouldn't expect to be murdered.

JAZCASH wrote:I said it once and I'll say it again:

Killing innocent people is a lot more vile than anything you'll find in the Bible.

If I were to rape you, I wouldn't expect to be lot off. If I didn't believe in Islam, I wouldn't expect to be murdered.

So people who eat blood (Never had black pudding??) or are homosexual are not 'innocent' by your definition? And you find it acceptable that they should be executed?

FLOZi wrote:

JAZCASH wrote:I said it once and I'll say it again:

Killing innocent people is a lot more vile than anything you'll find in the Bible.

If I were to rape you, I wouldn't expect to be lot off. If I didn't believe in Islam, I wouldn't expect to be murdered.

So people who eat blood (Never had black pudding??) or are homosexual are not 'innocent' by your definition? And you find it acceptable that they should be executed?

I don't agree with homosexuality and I'm not sure about the blood thing...
But I'd rather one of those people be executed than a typical joe.

Btw, the Bible is reffering to human blood. Animal blood is consumed by the gallon without any weirdness going on. If I met someone who drank human blood, I would be quite happy to kill him myself.

If I met someone who drank human blood, I would be quite happy to kill him myself.

In before Catholics?

JAZCASH wrote:

FLOZi wrote:

JAZCASH wrote:I said it once and I'll say it again:

Killing innocent people is a lot more vile than anything you'll find in the Bible.

If I were to rape you, I wouldn't expect to be lot off. If I didn't believe in Islam, I wouldn't expect to be murdered.

So people who eat blood (Never had black pudding??) or are homosexual are not 'innocent' by your definition? And you find it acceptable that they should be executed?

I don't agree with homosexuality and I'm not sure about the blood thing...
But I'd rather one of those people be executed than a typical joe.

Btw, the Bible is reffering to human blood. Animal blood is consumed by the gallon without any weirdness going on. If I met someone who drank human blood, I would be quite happy to kill him myself.

Tell me why someone's sexuality makes them not a 'typical joe' and worthy of execution?

And I'm pretty sure the passage is about animal blood, though its open to interpretation.

tombom wrote:

The fact that the Qur'an states that any non-muslim should be slaughtered, frankly, scares me. And that's the policy which will be enforced once the muslim race is greater than the british which is happening overwhelmingly fast. You don't need figures to work that out.

No it doesn't. No it won't.

Yes it does... lern2read

Versus which proscribe violence against infidels (Christians, Jews, anyone who is not a Muslim) :

The Qur'an:


Sura (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." There is a good case to be made that the overall context of these verses is defensive war, however, there are two worrisome pieces to this passage. The first is that the killing of others is authorized in the event of "persecution." The second is that fighting may persist until "religion is for Allah."



Sura (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."



Sura (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."



Sura (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."



Sura (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of killing Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').



Sura (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."



Sura (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah"



Sura (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."



Sura (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage not only criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, but also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Qur'an, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad).



Sura (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Pursuing an injured enemy is not an act of self-defense.



Sura (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"



Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"



Sura (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."



Sura (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"



Sura (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."



Sura (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."



Sura (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."



Sura (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."



Sura (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The "striving" spoken of here is Jihad.



Sura (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."


Sura (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"



Sura (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.



Sura (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew."


Sura (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination."



Sura (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."


Sura (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."



Sura (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."



Sura (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"



Sura (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the (Qur'an)." "Strive against" is Jihad, obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.



Sura (47:4) - "So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,"



Sura (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost: for Allah is with you,"



Sura (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom."



Sura (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"



Sura (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"



Sura (61:10-12) - "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity." This verse was given in battle. It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.



Sura (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites," those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.



From the Hadith:



Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."



Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.



Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)



Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious



Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah



Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah



Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."



Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"



Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihid died the death of a hypocrite.'"



Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."



Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.



Ibn Ishaq: 327 ÔÇ£Allah said, ÔÇÿA prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.ÔÇÖÔÇØ



Ibn Ishaq: 990 Lest anyone think that cutting off someone's head while screaming 'Allah Akbar!' is a modern custom, here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who seems to approve.

@Flozi, stop quoting old testament verses regarding that. If you had actually read the bible you would know that once Jesus died on the cross, he died for the sins of the world and no longer were other peoples to be considered "Unclean". Hence John the Baptist.

Considering that that is the Pivotal point in biblical history... It makes a BIG difference.

At which point, a massive majority of the teachings from the old testament get chucked out of the window.

FLOZi wrote: Tell me why someone's sexuality makes them not a 'typical joe' and worthy of execution?

I have no certainty of what I'm about to say, but I'll go with it anyway...

At the beginning of time, their were no gays. The natural way of things is for a Man to Love a woman and that is naturally how the human race grows and lives. Gays probably only appeared after a group of folks decided the Bible was ludicrous and wanted some way of annoying Biblicites so they fucked each other to get on their tits.

Most gays will state that they were "born gay" when in fact, their is no such thing. Naturally, every human being will love a woman until they bend their own morals. Being gay is no physchological disease where it affects a persons brainwaves to love another sex. It's simply being unnatural.

If God dislikes gays, that's fine with me. And Nick Griffin states that most people find it weird when they see a man kissing another man. That statement got some incredible criticism but it's 100% true.

Most people make fun of gays and find them either sick, stupid or weird. Infact, the term gay is now used so much for a general insult, it applies to anybody who gets a bit annoying

Anyway Flozi, when I say a typical joe, I'm talking about the majority. The majority of this planet would rather fuck the opposite gender. At least I hope so. If not, then I speak for myself.

It's not much different to animal fucking. It's unnatural, sick, dirty. But if a bunch of people starting doing it for years as if it was the norm, it would eventually become accepted. Because gays are currently the minority, it's not yet become fully accepted. When something becomes the majority, it usually becomes accpeted.

lol that's some horrid copy-paste spread around by anti-muslim people, yeah truly non-biased. i'll attempt to debunk most of them, i'm sure there's some actual decent site which rebuts them properly

Sura (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." There is a good case to be made that the overall context of these verses is defensive war, however, there are two worrisome pieces to this passage. The first is that the killing of others is authorized in the event of "persecution." The second is that fighting may persist until "religion is for Allah."
Sura (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

you realise the allah of islam is the god of christianity and judaism, right? this means these two verses merely say that paganism style stuff is wrong, which although obviously stupid isn't the crazy compared to most religions.

Sura (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

makes no religious references, fighting is non-demoninational.

Sura (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

i have a feeling this refers to apostasy from islam. this, again, is no worse than jack chick christianity.

Sura (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of killing Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

yeah whatever, talk about seeing what's not there. some random site gave me a different translation which makes far more sense
[3:151] We will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, since they set up besides GOD powerless idols. Their destiny is Hell; what a miserable abode for the transgressors!

Sura (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

no shit? promises of rewards for people doing god's work in a war? i can't even imagine a christian equivalent!

Sura (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah"

again, barely means anything. not scary at all.

Sura (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

again, i believe this refers to apostasy. it's talking about false friends. another different translation: [4:89] They wish that you disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you become equal. Do not consider them friends, unless they mobilize along with you in the cause of GOD. If they turn against you, you shall fight them, and you may kill them when you encounter them in war. You shall not accept them as friends, or allies.

Sura (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage not only criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, but also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Qur'an, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad).

again, ridiculous. nothing in this passage suggests anything about violence except for the word fight, which again disappears in a different translation.

Sura (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Pursuing an injured enemy is not an act of self-defense.

yeah this isn't that nice but not a specific religion issue, or something that suggests religious intolerance.

[5:33] The just retribution for those who fight GOD and His messenger, and commit horrendous crimes, is to be killed, or crucified, or to have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or to be banished from the land. This is to humiliate them in this life, then they suffer a far worse retribution in the Hereafter.

pretty horrid, but again not suprising or showing a desire to be agressive

Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

hmm so they're saying that god will be on your side and help you win the battle? and when you do you should be agressive or whatever? again it's not nice but not especially evil either

Sura (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

so when you are attacked by the non-believer, you shouldn't just not take part in the fighting? truly ground breaking stuff, i can't imagine anybody being told that they are evil people for not fighting well enough against people DESTROYING ARE COUNTRY.

after this i can't be arsed putting more effort in to something so obviously a poor attempt at attacking an entire religion when you put no more effort than a copy-paste.

also i'm finally tipped in to believing jazcash is trolling. was pretty good.

the whole thing about muslims grouping christians and jews among infidels, i don't really buy that... although i once had someone tell me that he shouldn't be talking to me because i wasn't muslim, jewish or christian. (something about "men of the book")

stated earlier, there is no united islam... there are many different factions of islam, that often feud among themselves. and as with any religion, people have varied degrees of adherence to the rules... you'll get all ends of the spectrum... a half-assed guy who goes to the church once a year, and the extremist guy who thinks about holy wars and things like that.

most of the friends that i made at college were either muslim or from muslim families... most didn't adhere to the rules of the religion (unless i've got it twisted and its okay to drink and get high in islam) just as most of the people i know who are catholics are perfectly willing to get laid before they are married and use contraceptives and suchforth. i don't think i've EVER been into contact with an extremist of any religion; the closest i've come was an asian kid in gradeschool who wasn't allowed out on halloween.

religious extremists of any type are dangerous, be they christian, muslim, or anything else. those are the people who will commit horrible acts in the name of god... and in terms of atrocities, i'd say that you could argue that ANY of the major world religious are the *worst* in terms of what they committed.

as far as the BNP is concerned for me, the main reason they are gaining popularity is because of certain issues that they address which are ignored for the most part by the other parties, not because people agree with EVERYTHING they stand for. if i lived in england, i would be crying for political reform.

Jaz, i don't really know where to begin with that last statement regarding homosexuals.

Gays probably only appeared after a group of folks decided the Bible was ludicrous and wanted some way of annoying Biblicites so they fucked each other to get on their tits.

is that how YOU piss people off, by having sex with men? there are easier ways that don't require lube. by this logic, EVERY gay person is actually heterosexual, but just really, really angry with religious people, to the point that they need to have their ass plunged (wut)

if man is created in gods image, and 10% of the population of the world is something other than heterosexual, then god MUST be 10% gay. he created rainbows, didn't he? the whole idea of saying it's impossible to be "born gay" im really not sure about either. i dont think kids develop a sexual preference until they reach a certain age.

i feel uncomfortable watching two men kiss. i also feel uncomfortable watching a man and a woman kiss. this is the kind of thing that should be kept behind bedroom doors IMO.

homosexuality has been prevalent throughout history if you do some reading. i understand you're just offering an opinion, not preaching to us... but at the same time, i think you need to consider some of the aspects of the quandary a bit more.

Most people make fun of gays and find them either sick, stupid or weird.

no.

KaiserJ wrote:the whole thing about muslims grouping christians and jews among infidels, i don't really buy that... although i once had someone tell me that he shouldn't be talking to me because i wasn't muslim, jewish or christian. (something about "men of the book")

Yes, Jews and Christians are considered people of the book (they follow the same God, similar traditions) and they were generally treated pretty decently, relatively speaking, in Muslim countries.

tombom wrote:

KaiserJ wrote:the whole thing about muslims grouping christians and jews among infidels, i don't really buy that... although i once had someone tell me that he shouldn't be talking to me because i wasn't muslim, jewish or christian. (something about "men of the book")

Yes, Jews and Christians are considered people of the book (they follow the same God, similar traditions) and they were generally treated pretty decently, relatively speaking, in Muslim countries.

Second class citizens are treated "pretty decently," "relatively speaking." Relatively compared to a group targeted for genocide, for example, as they aren't being murdered as fast. Brutalization, excessive taxation, humiliation, no legal rights and slavery are "pretty decent," "relatively speaking." I suppose, relatively speaking you can push anything. Good dhimmi.

Just a reminder, all the brits here should vote BNP. It's really sad that you don't know what's good for your own country and you need me to tell you what to do on a forum. Really. I know better than you.

CarRepairer wrote:Second class citizens are treated "pretty decently," "relatively speaking." Relatively compared to a group targeted for genocide, for example, as they aren't being murdered as fast. Brutalization, excessive taxation, humiliation, no legal rights and slavery are "pretty decent," "relatively speaking." I suppose, relatively speaking you can push anything. Good dhimmi.

hahahahaha, excessive taxation, scourge of the fucking world.

i was meaning generally historically. note that muslims and jews in most catholic countries would have been treated far worse than just being treated as second-class citizens and taxed higher. the ottoman empire was a fucking model of tolerance compared to every single european country for a very long time.

i'm not going to deny that christians and jews are often subject to persecution in muslim countries nowadays, but it's dumb to suggest that this is somehow inherent in the religion.