Spring RTS Engine

d_b wrote:If artwork is so trivial care to texture some ants? ;D

Just paste some pictures over the model like the last guy making a bug mod and shut up

Otherside wrote:guess ill go back to playing spring when SWIW is finally released

Play some 1944 and Kernel Panic.

Saktoth wrote:Compared to making a game from scratch, making a Spring mod is utterly trivial. Making a good one is still difficult, but once you have the art assets, plugging it all together is not very hard. IW clearly has the art assets.

It isn't precisely trivial. Spring factors out part of one element of what a game from scratch needs to provide... an engine. The engine behind a game is a comparatively small component upon which everything else depends, but it alone does not make the majority of effort put into a title. You still need to provide the localization, the visual elements, the audible elements, support, scripting, artificial intelligence, engine modifications, testing, hosting, etcetera. Not that any present Spring projects do, but they could and should.

neddiedrow wrote:

Saktoth wrote:Compared to making a game from scratch, making a Spring mod is utterly trivial. Making a good one is still difficult, but once you have the art assets, plugging it all together is not very hard. IW clearly has the art assets.

It isn't precisely trivial. Spring factors out part of one element of what a game from scratch needs to provide... an engine. The engine behind a game is a comparatively small component upon which everything else depends, but it alone does not make the majority of effort put into a title. You still need to provide the localization, the visual elements, the audible elements, support, scripting, artificial intelligence, engine modifications, testing, hosting, etcetera. Not that any present Spring projects do, but they could and should.

you do realize who you're talking to, right?

Oh. Good point. No, I often don't look at user names so I can remain relatively impartial.

Three days after the next version of AA, and they'll insist I stole the ideas for jedi from them.

and they would be right...

Yea because THEY came up with jedis...

not that they came up with the idea of Jedi in and of itself, but that its the only... you know what its irrelevant Caydr will either never release or if he does it won't have Jedi in it anyway so this whole thing is moot

Warlord Zsinj wrote:possibly, but I find all the playtesting, balancing, arguing, tweaking, rethinking, and so on far more stressful and occasionally even more time consuming then the actual art production part

Maybe you should outsource that bit.

If you're a good artist (you are of course, there are few in spring), its not hard to make attractive art: esp when you have such references to work from as star wars.

But game design. Ooooooh damn design. Its about generating 'fun', how do you do that? So much of it is an 'interpretive' art for the end user, an interaction, so its almost impossible to execute the vision of the designer as he intended. Though, like any good artist, you just have to roll with how it turns out and if people see something in it that you didnt intend to put there just go 'Ahh, well, yes i meant to do that'.

Making a good game is always hard. Making just a game though, for spring, which runs and functions and doesnt bug or crash, is really pretty easy.

Saktoth wrote:Making a good game is always hard. Making just a game though, for spring, which runs and functions and doesnt bug or crash, is really pretty easy.

yeah it you use shit art, sounds and don't have to write any scripts/animations.

I think you greatly downplay the commitment and effort that goes into games.

I think we're seeing meanings that aren't there and talking past each other as a result

smoth wrote: yeah it you use shit art, sounds and don't have to write any scripts/animations.

I think you greatly downplay the commitment and effort that goes into games.

No, i challenge the whole concept of 'vaporware' or 'Imperial Winter Forever' as applied to a spring mod. It makes it sound as if they have a buggy, un-releasable product stuck in development hell.

They have the scripts, and the art. They dont need to write a game engine, let alone a rendering or physics engine. Even if they had no 'game' there, and all the units were just stuck into Spring just to take screenshots: From there, it is really pretty straightforward to plug in some unitdefs and turn it into a game.

They are trying to reach a certain goal prior to release.

They have stated several times that they are only going to have ONE shot. They do not want to have a bad release, they want certain things done and ready prior to release. It doesn't matter what their development model is, it is their decision as a team.

So it is NOT really any of our business what they are doing.

No it isn't vaporware, I have seen it. They are going to make a solid polished release and I applaud what they are trying for.

Don't worry chaps, haven't been offended by either of you. You've both been huge helps with IW, so I know none of you mean any harm. I've been running this mod for long enough that I'm not bothered by the other naysayers in this thread - only way to prove them wrong is to release, which we'll only do when we're ready.

Plus I think we have quite a decent game design that I'm personally quite happy with; it just needs a lot of balance tweaking, and that part can be quite stressful and not always rewarding, which is the part I was referring too. I love game design and solving game design problems, which is really what I started IW for - I only discovered I could texture later. But sifting through various parties whinging to change one obscure weapon value by 10%? Less so

I do disagree that it's easy to make attractive art; I find it far more time consuming then the balancing part (~8+ hours per texture on average); I just quite enjoy it so it doesn't bother me as much. Plus, I'd say having Star wars references creates as many problems as it solves...

But sifting through various parties whinging to change one obscure weapon value by 10%? Less so

heh,

Gnome wrote:

d_b wrote:If artwork is so trivial care to texture some ants? ;D

Just paste some pictures over the model like the last guy making a bug mod and shut up

yeah. Thats a process called texturing. Good work...

d_b wrote:yeah. Thats a process called texturing. Good work...

*ahem* some of us draw our details...

IWF comment was a joke.

You should release. A public beta, or something.

At the point in development you seem to be in there's very little more "balancing" work you and gnome can do on your own. Releasing is a great way to get lots of feedback and perhaps more importantly, lots of help. We've picked up shittons of unimaginably useful talent after our releases hit the "shelves". Art-wise atleast, I think you guys are way ahead of where we were (and probably way ahead of where we are now).