Spring RTS Engine

Hello kburts!

I'm myself having fantasies about creating a mod (having a job and a family with 4 kids ranging from diaper-age to adult, I got time constraints that forces my spring modding plans to be defined as 'fantasies' ) and for anything gaming related I've taken a key principle of extreme programming at heart:

Start with something so ridiculously simply that it takes little effort to create it and to make it "completely working". (That way, one has something that "works" from the start and thus can be verified to "still work" even during the first iterations of improvements that is part of the development cycle).

So, assume you try to create something with the most primitive graphics you can imagine (64x64 textures does not look like a commercial game but they can still define something and to define a unit with some volume, you only need 4 triangles to define a tetrahedron, really) and that you use a minimal set of unit types like this:

• one single type of mobile unit for combat and construction
• one single type of immobile unit as a factory popping out the mobile kind of unit I just mentioned
• one single type unit being a metal extractor

and you got all that's needed for creating a playable game including production, claiming territory and trying to eliminate the pesky opposition. Energy can be ignored for the sake of simplicity (and simplicity is the initial goal here). The game don't even have to be "spammy" just because it is only having three kinds of units, you can tune production so the construction of things is pretty expensive to keep down the number of units (or just make the mobile guys a bit more costly).

Focus on creating a mod like the one described above, without any kind of cool innovative features and gimmicks we all have percolating in the back of our head as "damn, that I would like to see in a mod" (those features can be developed later) and I think you have accomplished to

• to define a manageable number of hurdles and obstacles to confront and overcome. Yes, even if the above mod specification have an ambition level that is "lower than whale shit", it still contains a number of pitfalls, caveats and lurking dragons that will bring quite some experience points to an adventurous, novice mod creator.
• to define something that takes minimal time before you can say "ok, it looks like whale shit, but man, it is playable! (...involve a co-developer, and you both can play with each other and get tons of encouragement and motivation by playing your own creation!). How long time that is depends on tons of factors, and I'm not even a n00b on mod creation so I can only give you a bad guess... 40 hours? That bad guess includes time you need for getting up to speed on the various tools involved though and selecting some of said tools in the first place (Blender for 3d? Gimp for 2D textures? Choices, choices, choices...) etc.

The above advice is based on my experience both as a professional software developer as well as a scarce time gaming hobbyist. Hope it helps. The key here is to keep down your initial ambitions way down as that dramatically increases your chances of coming up with a complete, self contained "product" which might not be impressive as a product by itself (as it will be very simple) but which might be impressive (at least for you and that's very important) because it actually works!

Ambitious projects that never manage to reach usable status might be educating, but they don't have that "wow" feeling of something that is complete and at least runnable at a basic level. And how often haven't one happened to be over ambitious in various situations...

Then of course, aim for the stars and reach the top of the trees etc, but make sure that the steps you try to take to reach those stars are small enough to be manageable.

Good luck!

Hey, SB started as my attempt to get a unit ingame for the first time and ended up as the greatest game ever to be run by spring.

what's sb?

and.. thanks for the advise! it probably took a while to type, it is pretty moving (in a sense of confidence.) I started with Wings 3d about a week ago, it is pretty difficult.
I don't know if i will make a mod or what it'll be about, but i will look into it

Don't worry about an 'about' at this point. Just concentrate on making something (do a combat unit first, they are dead easy :)) and getting it ingame. Don't try anything tricky at first.

Most importantly, HAVE FUN.

kburts wrote:how long does a mod take to make?

It takes forever. Litteraly. I you stop posting about your mod update, then you mod cease to exist (like, I dunno, EE or Nanoblobs or CvC).

If you are even asking the question about how long it would take before your mod is done, I'd say just give up now, you'll never end your mod anyway.


If you're still keen on modding, then start small: first edit FBIs, then slowly learn to tweak more and more areas of a mod, then try to make one single brand new unit, etc... Few are the people who like Smoth have the will and skill to learn all about modding a given game in a couple months in order to get their vision done in a couple years. Most people quit before completing anything grand, so if you aim small first, at least you'll have something done when you eventually give up.

SB is Simbase. Peet's mod.

Sheekel wrote:Yes, part of the reason things take so long is because some (most?) of the development tools are either out of date/abandoned, of poor quality, are time consuming to use, or all of the above.

heh, don't forget having a life.

Even as a pro game developer you would be working >40 hours a week with a full team for years to produce a good game. Some smaller independent teams/individuals take less time. However, that is few and far between and not having to deal with multiplayer which adds the extra head ache of balance and play testing.

If you are doing it in your spare time it a heavy undertaking and will completely dominate your spare time to work on. Gundam has eaten my time for years and would probably be further along if I didn't have a life but life is not about slaving away on something it is about living. Not that I am trying to be discouraging but a proper project can be as demanding as having a second GF.

Best way to satisfy your creativity is to join existing mod that you like most.
http://caspring.org/ is always open to new developers and its easy to start contributing. And im sure other mods are open too.

If you join existing project you can be sure that even if you make just 1 unit or 1 texture it will be used in game that gets played.

Most new mods - even when completed - fail to attract significant player base..

Licho wrote:Best way to satisfy your creativity is to join existing mod that you like most.
http://caspring.org/ is always open to new developers and its easy to start contributing. And im sure other mods are open too.

If you join existing project you can be sure that even if you make just 1 unit or 1 texture it will be used in game that gets played.

Most new mods - even when completed - fail to attract significant player base..

Exactly.

I still have dreams of making a game, but it will take forever alone, and looking back, I realize that if I had tried before, instead of joining a game development team (CA's ) it would've been impossible. There's a varied skillset you need before you can start producing standalone content for any game engine. or Spring, you need to know how to model, map, skin, edit FBI, write Lua, make COB, use various spring-related programs, make decent balance, and advertise, along with many I have probably neglected to mention. Joining a game development team can help you acquire these skills, and earn you some prestige among the community, so that others may volunteer to help you. Your co-developers at a game development project can give you useful advice, teach you some fundamental concepts, and help bounce ideas, all of which are very valuable services. Most importantly, you actually contribute something to the community, rather than sitting around with some dreams in your head.

TL;DR: Join a game dev team sometime.
addendum: what I call a game is what you call a mod. Mentally substitute appropriately.

over 9000 hours no joke

Years in the case of BattleFleet

smoth wrote:Not that I am trying to be discouraging but a proper project can be as demanding as having a second GF.

You speak as if there are modders with a first

I've been working on/off for nearly 2 years and I'm not finished... Yeah...

Snipawolf wrote:I've been working on/off for nearly 2 years and I'm not finished... Yeah...

what mod is that?

Fallen Haven.

Initially I started out misguided and didn't have a solid plan together, which cost me a good bit of time. Now that I'm back (I've been gone for a few months) I intend to stick to my plan and make something happen. It won't take but maybe a year to get everything I want out of it, including learning lua. I just have to stay on track.

tldr; Make a design document and stick with it.

Working on a mod is more like having a wife, because you still work on it like a slave, but it rarely ever puts out.

Forboding Angel wrote:Working on a mod is more like having a wife, because you still work on it like a slave, but it rarely ever puts out.

Or that might just be your wife...

A mod like BA doesn't take long, since it is a modification of existing content. A game, like S44 or Gundam RTS, can take years.

I should ressurect TACW, it predates even AATA by a few weeks.

Guess I can't compete with SWTA/IW though.

JohannesH wrote:

Forboding Angel wrote:Working on a mod is more like having a wife, because you still work on it like a slave, but it rarely ever puts out.

Or that might just be your wife...

I'm not married.

Making a mod is like Oregon Trail. And when you get to Oregon you're done.