Spring RTS Engine

perhaps units would only move backwards if the next waypoint is near their back? This way you can get stuck vehicles out from in between buildings but for longer distances they will drive normal.
edit: wops, I think thats what Tobi meant. well it seems c&c generals does it this way...

knorke wrote:perhaps units would only move backwards if the next waypoint is near their back? This way you can get stuck vehicles out from in between buildings but for longer distances they will drive normal.
edit: wops, I think thats what Tobi meant. well it seems c&c generals does it this way...

There's no distance limit with your approach, a tank that's facing south when ordered to the north edge of the map will always drive backwards and at every waypoint decide its back is closer to the next waypoint so it'll keep driving backwards.

What do you do in a car if you want to turn really fast?

Go backwards and stear right. Stop, go forwards and stear left. That is what i spoke before does.

I think what knorke is talking about is detecting if the next waypoint is close enough that it is not worth bothering to turn around. (Of course, if there are more waypoints after, being in the right direction/having speed at that point might be useful.)

with "waypoint" i meant the ones set by the player with clicking or shift-clicking, not something calculated by the spring pathfinder. maybe "destination" is a better word?


For long distance travels tanks would still turn on the spot and then drive off as they currently do.
For more complex reverse maneuvers you could click behind the unit so it keeps moving backwards and doesnt slow down to turn: for example you want to micro a unit out of danger or run down infantry (I think in S44 this works?)

If some slow-turning unit (battleships, large tanks etc) is to move only a few meters backward, reverse is faster than turning 180°. Of course if the unit is suppossed to move across half the map then it should turn: in that case the timeloss is not that important anyway.

Of course for some units (like ships) reverse doesn't make any sense.

Yes it does? Spaceships no, but water ships maneuverable enough to turn nearly in place should also be able to point those screws backwards.

Voith-Schneider propulsion! I've said it before and I'll say it again

Most any kind of ship using screw propulsion can reverse. Even old XIX century steamers could do that. Voith-Schneider allows turns in place and generally good maneuverability, but it isn't required for simple reversing.

even then, V-S cannot make a battleship turn in place. Its a maneuverability AID, not a magic wand.

Pressure Line wrote:even then, V-S cannot make a battleship turn in place. Its a maneuverability AID, not a magic wand.

Realism does not have a place in Spring.

KDR_11k wrote:

momfreeek wrote:Shouldn't reverse be a seperate command? Leave it to the player to decide when he wants his troops to use reverse.

If it's completely manual you can just as well gadget it, either use COB to turn the visual unit 180° (while also turning the unit 180° so it looks the same but internally faces the other way) or use movectrl.

Surely it makes more sense to include manual reversing in the engine (its simple and unambiguous) and then gadgets/widgets can automate it (seeing as ideal behaviour is dependant on a lot of things).

Is it possible like knorke proposed? How easy is the integration?

I think Panzers is a good example as well, even though the game is very different.

E: http://www.voithturbo.de/545950.htm :D

KDR_11k wrote:

momfreeek wrote:Shouldn't reverse be a seperate command? Leave it to the player to decide when he wants his troops to use reverse.

If it's completely manual you can just as well gadget it, either use COB to turn the visual unit 180° (while also turning the unit 180° so it looks the same but internally faces the other way) or use movectrl.

Didn't you have a unit in GINTA which walks backwards? I'm pretty sure your lolinfantry did.

rattle wrote:

KDR_11k wrote:

momfreeek wrote:Shouldn't reverse be a seperate command? Leave it to the player to decide when he wants his troops to use reverse.

If it's completely manual you can just as well gadget it, either use COB to turn the visual unit 180° (while also turning the unit 180° so it looks the same but internally faces the other way) or use movectrl.

Didn't you have a unit in GINTA which walks backwards? I'm pretty sure your lolinfantry did.

That was just to get a 360° weapon arc without having exorcist-style torso turns.

IOW it was a fancy animation script.

I like knorke's idea of reversing only when moving small distances; longer distances will turn the tank around.

A combination would be similar to Supcom; if told to go backwards a wheeled unit will reverse in a circle then drive forwards.. err, like a normal car.

Speaking of which it DOESN'T make sense for wheeled vehicles to turn on the spot.

btw lua has read access to the pathfinding waypoints (+heightmap +cob to start the move animation)

here's an idea that would be fairly easy to implement.

if (time taken to turn) > (time taken to move to location backwards)
move backwards
else
turn, move forwards

this is a 4d algorithm that should be fairly easy

time taken to turn can be based off the respective variable

time taken to move is the speed x sum of pathfinding point length to the clicked spot(pathfinding points)

this method will ensure that the unit will get to the position as fast as possible

other things to take into calculation would be the desired angle the unit will rest in

EDIT: also on another point, an inbuilt arc limit for units such as kbots should be built in where they change animations to say, a side walk animation