Page 2 of 3

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 28 Oct 2008, 13:37
by AF
krogothe did, but it was still subject to the same flaws. He didn't release it because it would give a huge unfair advantage to whomever had it.
1.Then program the widget to not use the D-Gun when your energy is low.
Indeed, though I expect users will complain in some noobish way that their commander refused to dgun or that ti spammed dgun shots until there was no energy left without ever hitting the target.
2.Then program the widget to not fire when friendly units is in the D-Gun range and not to fire when friendly buildings is near by.
Take the commander and send a flash into his dgun range but just enough for the order to actually be issued then move the flash towards the base, and the commander will follow, sit the flash next to something insanely expensive/explosive and wait.

Or capture an enemy unit in an air transport and make the transport guard a second transport which is then used to comnap.
3. Then program the widget to only fire when the enemy unit is holding still.(The buildings shouldn't be a problem.
No player is that stupid to leave a single unit in an enemy commanders dgun range sitting idle. In this case your not meant to dgun, your meant to reclaim the enemy unit and rip the p*ss out of the enemy for being a total n00b

And not all buildings are safe to dgun, nuke mine decloaks next to commander and gets dgunned, commander dies? There's the obvious one of don't dgun enemy commander or your commander dies, what if there's a flea infront of that commander? Should we dgun that? DGun shots arent instantaneous either, and units can move! What if the shot grazed another unit which we don't want dgunned because of said explosiveness?
if that doesn't work out then program the widget to Auto D-gun when manually targeting a building or a enemy unit.
See above, sometimes its not in your interests to dgun a unit.

I do not say all this randomly, I say it from experience. I have implemented commander AIs for NTai and seen the implementations for RAI and KAI, its not as simple as it seems and has unforeseen consequences.

One example of better behavior is sometimes ti costs more to dgun than it does to reclaim or capture. I found if a peewee came into a commanders build area in XTA it was both cheaper safer and quicker to reclaim the peewee and get the resources than it was to fire a dgun shot, which if inside your base early game as was common would deal the AI a crippling blow.

Now most XTA players I played against were good with micro and would run rings around an auto-dgunning AI, since without predictive targeting they were basically missing every shot. Humans themselves have issues in some mods with dgunning targets even with predictive aim.

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 02 Nov 2008, 04:57
by Tribulexrenamed
Or with lag.


I need to make my own plane dgunner. I made something for transport dgunning...

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 03 Nov 2008, 16:16
by Pendrokar
AF wrote:He didn't release it because it would give a huge unfair advantage to whomever had it.
So you mean that using some Lua widgets is cheating? :?

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 03 Nov 2008, 17:47
by Noruas
AF, thats a moral issue, release the damn thing already!

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 04 Nov 2008, 03:02
by Acidd_UK
In the limit, OP asks for a team AI.

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 04 Nov 2008, 12:55
by AF
Indeed ti would be cheating because DGun kills any unit, and the groupAI gave you a guaranteed hit. Krogothes groupAI demo showed a commander dgunning a lvl 2 hawk fighter at max speed.

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 04 Nov 2008, 20:50
by Pendrokar
AF wrote:Indeed ti would be cheating because DGun kills any unit, and the groupAI gave you a guaranteed hit. Krogothes groupAI demo showed a commander dgunning a lvl 2 hawk fighter at max speed.
I wanna see it!!! :shock:

Well not Guranteed hit. Unless the AI know the enemy units path!

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 04 Nov 2008, 21:15
by Noruas
I actually want the dgun hitting hawks only because i want to make epic video, for spring...

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 05 Nov 2008, 12:34
by AF
Well the demo wont work with this current build of spring anyway so you best get to work!

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 05 Nov 2008, 15:46
by Pendrokar
AF wrote:Well the demo wont work with this current build of spring anyway so you best get to work!
Would it matter if I choose to make it with LUA or GroupAI? :?:

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 05 Nov 2008, 17:00
by AF
Best make it in lua

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 07 Nov 2008, 04:05
by BaNa
Noruas wrote:I actually want the dgun hitting hawks only because i want to make epic video, for spring...
yeah me too totally. I wouldnt use it for anything else, why would I...

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 12 Nov 2008, 00:50
by Google_Frog
It's only cheating if you say reducing micro is cheating. A fast enough player can d-gun hawks so why not make a widget to do it?

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 12 Nov 2008, 03:47
by Tribulexrenamed
Google_Frog wrote:It's only cheating if you say reducing micro is cheating. A fast enough player can d-gun hawks so why not make a widget to do it?
Because then Me and Babs are no long t3h 1337 hawk dgunners of doum.

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 12 Nov 2008, 10:15
by Acidd_UK
Google_Frog wrote:It's only cheating if you say reducing micro is cheating. A fast enough player can d-gun hawks so why not make a widget to do it?
Because if you are dgunning a hawk manually, you are not microing your army somewhere else. With a widget you can be. On the other hand, I think anyone that would want to automate dgunning is a noob anyway, it would be way too easily exploited to kill you.

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 19 Nov 2008, 23:19
by Tribulexrenamed
Acidd_UK wrote:
Google_Frog wrote:It's only cheating if you say reducing micro is cheating. A fast enough player can d-gun hawks so why not make a widget to do it?
Because if you are dgunning a hawk manually, you are not microing your army somewhere else. With a widget you can be. On the other hand, I think anyone that would want to automate dgunning is a noob anyway, it would be way too easily exploited to kill you.
Not if you code it right, or if you are not an idiot.

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 20 Nov 2008, 08:25
by KDR_11k
Acidd_UK wrote:Because if you are dgunning a hawk manually, you are not microing your army somewhere else.
You can pause the game in order to click at the damn thing.

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 20 Nov 2008, 10:37
by Acidd_UK
Tribulex wrote:
Acidd_UK wrote:..... On the other hand, I think anyone that would want to automate dgunning is a noob anyway, it would be way too easily exploited to kill you.
Not if you code it right, or if you are not an idiot.
Ok, I'll bite. Please explain to me how to code it 'right', so that another player couldn't exploit it to kill your com more easily than under manual control.

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 20 Nov 2008, 10:45
by REVENGE
The most useful would give you a "dgun attack" option, that can be toggled on or off and would obey all fire state rules.

Re: REQ: Wiget Auto D-gun?

Posted: 20 Nov 2008, 22:39
by Super Mario
REVENGE wrote:The most useful would give you a "dgun attack" option, that can be toggled on or off and would obey all fire state rules.
This is somewhat like mine only better, I approve this.