Spring RTS Engine

Erom wrote:Call it Server, and change System to Client. Or... oooh, oooh, call it User. Name it's artillery building PEBKAC.

Heheh, no, I already have plans. I don't want to be one of those guys that dumps out tons of details about projects that I'm not even sure I'll be able to pull off. I'm just asking because I want to know that the ground isn't moving under my feet, and that KDR et al are receptive to new material.

Pxtl wrote:I don't want to be one of those guys that dumps out tons of details about projects that I'm not even sure I'll be able to pull off.

That's to your credit.

In Div0 the hacker no longer has a mine of any kind, the bug deploys into artillery.

Don't let the unit numbers restrict you but think about the goal for your faction. If you want to you can have two mass units or three big units or whatever you feel like.

Pxtl wrote:So that if I made another faction along the same lines with similar balancing, it would fit in?

No duplicate factions! IMO the virus faction missed the point of the 'purity' of KP and just threw in a bunch of 'similiar but different' units. You dont want a bunch of samish factions with samish artillery, tank, infantry, socket, kernel arrangements.

Go for something wild- Whereas orig KP was based on infantry/tanks/artillery, make a faction based on cavalry/archers/infantry or air/armour/infantry or riflemen/grenadiers/cannons or rocks/papers/scissors or a faction with no special units from their kernel (but all units equally on par in strength) or a faction that can build different types of sockets that create different types of units (do you want to build a socket that makes Cavalry, or one that makes Archers?) or one where the kernal makes all the units and sockets provide resources (centralized) or one with no kernal at all and just a starting socket.

Etc etc, think outside the box.

Pxtl wrote:1) Anybody got a link for the KP maps for 1.5? I'm planning to induct some old buddies into Spring and I wanted to include at least one game of KP, but the Installer-version isn't good for Linux. Is there a zip-bundle or something they could use? Obviously, for newbies, I don't want to have to deal with fetching the SVN version of Spring.

This Kernel Panic 1.5 .zip without installer nor exe contains the Kernel Panic maps. (With the exception of Speed_Balls_16_Way that is in the installer but not in that zip, but some could argue it's not a trüe kernel panic map). This Kernel Panic 1.5 .zip without installer nor exe was made especially for linux users and other people who dislike Win32 exe.

Or if you insists on getting maps seperatly from the whole pack:
- D.M.A. 0.5e
- D.M.A. 0.5c
- Major Madness 3.0
- Marble Madness
But IMO it's better to get a single .zip file, even if it also contains a few files you don't want, like the 1.5 mod files.. And srsly, the Quick Search box of U.F. doesn't bite, you know.

Saktoth wrote:
Etc etc, think outside the box.

Well, I was hoping for "similar, but different" - kinda like Star Craft's factions, where each faction implements similar roles with similar units, but each unit is freakishly distinct from it's counterparts.

I was dreaming up a lot of factions (I think I reached 6 new ones at one point of dizzy daydreaming - iirc Neural Network, The Nothing, Virtual Machine, Macro-kernel, User, and Meme), and ended up with a certain convention:

1) The command factory.
2) The geotherm-covering factory that makes spammables.
3) At least one (maybe more) spammable (bit/bug). Focus on low-micro if special powers are desired for these.
4) A short list of fun, special units made by the command factory.
5) A builder/detector - that part's apparently rigid, since the Trojan and the Assembler are nearly identical.
6) Some utter-wierdness.

Keeping in mind that the roles of defense, artillery, and offense all need to be covered in some way or another.

zwzsg wrote:stuff

Thanks for the links. Couldn't find that on UF - still having trouble finding my way around the new version.

Artillery is not necessary but you'll want to give the player tools to kill heavy units without just swamping them with regular spam (since he'll have regular spam anyway). The hacker didn't have artillery in Corruption and was still on par with the system. All your rarer units need to be capable of is forcing the enemy into a response.

Keep up the good work guys, I really like Kernel Panic for the ability to play quickly - it's easy to introduce new players to Spring this way, people understand it (especially the System side) in 5 min.

Just a request: keep it as simple as possible.

If I were to keep it as simple as possible I'd remove everything except the kernel, assembler and bit and make the assembler able to build kernels.

Okay, new version. Minor tweaks to the existing material.

This also adds a new faction that uses artillery instead of direct fire. This faction is just a prototype to see how the idea plays. You need this patch in your SVN version for that faction to work properly.

cool
sadly that no one joins it when im hosting a KP game :/

It's like three weeks since I have written but forgot to post:


Great job on bringing abstract design into the hacker models. Though the current bug lack some walking (or whatever other form of movement) animation, and I feel the trojan buildray should be more luminous (I'd use a lightning type weapon with a twisted thick glowing beam of energy graphic.)

When looked up close, the bug turning into artillery mode animation is amazing, there's polygons smoothly appearing out of thin air, what kind of witchery have you used? However, the white jizz they throw isn't that beautiful, sure you can't spicy it up a bit? Nevertheless, that shot, and moreso the hacker turret shot and cloud, sure bring some visually cool darwinia style graphism. Remake the system's nuke explosion though, it just lacks the impressiveness and uniqueness it should have.

Good job on the new LUA hacks, likes the one creating virus, or the new deploy button, althought I didn't really tested them hard and thorough yet, so far ingame they just worked as they should.

I was quite disappointed to find out the pointer doesn't morph into another shape when using the area denial attack, and to find out the shot look almost identical when travelling.

The system turret has an ugly model.

The new security hole model is too simplistic for such an important unit, give it more polies and more volume!

I must admit that you did manage to bring the sneaky into the worm: it's not just intent and theory anymore, now, I actually perform devastating surprise worm attacks in real games. However, having worm set to off and unable to attack by default is a micro-management burden, and will also make many an unwary newcomer wonder why his worm isn't attacking. I suggest finding a way to make them not attack by themselves when cloacked, but have them automatically decloack and attack when the player use the "attack" command. I guess you could just set them to hold fire at birth, and have the cloacking happens automatically when they don't fire. Because having to use the on/off button is hampering.

While we're at the worm, right now, the worm attack has a quite an area of affect, but which is very hard to evaluate. When I see a worm streching up, I know nearby units may or may not take damage, but which exactly I cannot guess. So I suggest adding some sfx showing the area affected by the worm attack. Ideally something like that, but we have to deal with what's possible under the Spring engine so do what you can:



While I strived to make KP as accessible as possible with all-in-one installer, you went the complete opposite way by requiring the use of a Spring's weekly build and test server. Maybe I could modify my installer to use a more recent unofficial Spring and to connect to the test server by default? How bad an idea is it? Would mean I'd have to remake it each week but then you update the mod about that often. Also I'd have to add some failsafe so clueless player don't overwrite their regular Spring. But the good point is that then the lobby would be free of the TA based mods plague, and so newcomers (I still haven't dropped my plan of mass advertising KP) would stay into a friendly KP-only environnment and not dropped'n'lost into a harsh sea of B.A. I also have to check if there's any AI working with lastest Spring build and able to play KP.

As for the balance, since when we played two game in a row on marble madness same player won despite switching side (and can't say it's just because of our skill difference as the winner wasn't the same person on the games before and after), I can't say any side is dominating.

Please refrain from adding too many micro-intensive abilities, I enjoyed Kernel Panic being based on the macro scale, where directing the streams of units mattered more than handling individual units.

The game felt jerky, despite "B" showing a FPS of around 50, and despite the jerkyness feeling the same with 3 units and 100 units. Has the new Spring introduced some step-motion in all animations? Has too much LUA eaten my CPU? Is it your new large square pixel shots that have un-smooth animation? I have yet to identify the source of that feeling.

Jerkiness may be a bug that also happens in replays.

However, SVN Spring gives me an errorbox when I try to watch KDR/0 replays, so.

The bug arty is done the same way the build anims are done, with the new set constant 103, ALPHA_THRESHOLD. I guess the trail could be redone, I just made something quickly that would not slow down too much when volleys of it go flying everywhere.

Don't call the terminal a turret, I was confused for a minute until I remembered that's what you call it. If you want to use an informal name call it a bomber platform or something. The terminal's look is pretty much the only thing I could think of as a bomber platform design. I like the nuke as it is, definitely says "nothing's gonna survive this".

Similarily I couldn't think of much else for the security hole, I would have had a bigger pile of cubes at the side but I wanted to make sure it has four exits.

The Worm has two explosions, one at each end, when fully extended. For some reason not all units in the target area take damage if they're moving. An explanation I could think of is that unit quad positions are not updated every frame so when the explosion checks only the units in the affected quads it does not see all units that are really in range. I can try to Lua something to make the worm work better command-wise. If I knew how I'd make the worm's and the bug's toggle action queueable.

The game feels jerky when Tombom is hosting, maybe other people have that issue too. It's something about the network I think, not my department.

I'm not worrying about accessibility yet, as you can probably tell from the version name I don't see this as a full release. It uses SVN features, not much I can do about that now without pretty much reverting to Corruption and redoing everything. Not that I care, SVN isn't going to stay out of reach forever and I figured that limiting myself by going with 75b2 compatibility for something that's probably not done until the next release is silly. All my modding is SVN only these days, if you've seen all the awesome new features in SVN you wouldn't want to go back either.

The micro I added was added because I felt it was kinda boring to watch battles and not being able to do much about how they turn out beyond making sure I send more troops than the enemy. I don't think that was really macro, it was mostly about the early game and ordering the right constructions fast enough. Still micro but with much more delayed feedback. I hate delayed feedback more than anything in a game.

For balancing I'd like to point out that Marble Madness is quite different from the other available maps.

Kernel Panic now has ladders! Join http://www.spring-league.com/ and play today!

Also, KDR and zwzsg, when you register, tell me so I can make you ladder administrators for KP.

AFAIK Neddie phailed in picking the right thread. The ladder is for regular KP, not KP: Division Zero.

Just saw the topic subject and felt compelled to congratulate you on an epic subtitle.

Caydr: I see you're not familiar with the work of KDR. What a pity!

neddiedrow wrote:Also, KDR and zwzsg, when you register, tell me so I can make you ladder administrators for KP.

I registered tonight, but anyway I don't think I am around regularly enough to "administrate the ladder", whatever that encompass.