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pintle wrote:

SwiftSpear wrote:They don't say anything, they just advocate an opinion with no implied reasoning. Any time you take a complicated issue and sum it down to a few words you lose any power of convincing sway.

I absolutely disagree with that swift, you imply that the entire action of protest is meaningless unless you can hold a seminar on the same topic in order to discuss the reasoning behind your driect action.

Generally mass mobilisations are organised by an entity or coalition of entities which will publish a statement for use by the press, explaining their motivation and aims.

In Britain at least, protests are aimed at generating visible democratic pressure; there is little point in mobilizing to go and stand in trafalgar square, being adamantly opposed to, say, the Palestine Wall, if you do not have some visible signifier of your intent.

Sloganeering and hiijacking of honest intentions is a problem, but a protest sign is not an inherently useless thing.

Don't straw man what I say. I didn't imply that protest is pointless, neither did I imply that visible democratic pressure on an important issue is sometimes necessary. I simply said that protest signs are stupid. You can't argue against one protest sign with another, fundamentally, it's a little sign with a half dozen words, it doesn't contain an argument, it contains simply the statement of opinion.

This site effectively takes common topics that appear on protest signs and spins them, completely ignoring any sembalence of argumentative validity on the points being made, effectively, if you boil down a thought process to a few dozen words, ya, it generally doesn't do a good job of defending itself from criticism. With a protest sign that's not really the point now though is it.

SwiftSpear wrote:

pintle wrote:

SwiftSpear wrote:They don't say anything, they just advocate an opinion with no implied reasoning. Any time you take a complicated issue and sum it down to a few words you lose any power of convincing sway.

I absolutely disagree with that swift, you imply that the entire action of protest is meaningless unless you can hold a seminar on the same topic in order to discuss the reasoning behind your driect action.

Generally mass mobilisations are organised by an entity or coalition of entities which will publish a statement for use by the press, explaining their motivation and aims.

In Britain at least, protests are aimed at generating visible democratic pressure; there is little point in mobilizing to go and stand in trafalgar square, being adamantly opposed to, say, the Palestine Wall, if you do not have some visible signifier of your intent.

Sloganeering and hiijacking of honest intentions is a problem, but a protest sign is not an inherently useless thing.

Don't straw man what I say. I didn't imply that protest is pointless, neither did I imply that visible democratic pressure on an important issue is sometimes necessary. I simply said that protest signs are stupid. You can't argue against one protest sign with another, fundamentally, it's a little sign with a half dozen words, it doesn't contain an argument, it contains simply the statement of opinion.

This site effectively takes common topics that appear on protest signs and spins them, completely ignoring any sembalence of argumentative validity on the points being made, effectively, if you boil down a thought process to a few dozen words, ya, it generally doesn't do a good job of defending itself from criticism. With a protest sign that's not really the point now though is it.

At no point did i make any attempt to defend that despicable site, and i completely agree with your analysis of it.
I simply feel that protest signs carry a lot of merit, and that they are not intended to provided some incisive point in a dialectic: they are useful purely as a statement of intent. Any debate or conversation over the topic being protested would have occurred previously (assuming the parties involved are reasonable). The point of a protest sign is to say "I am here because of *this* issue, and i take *this* stance on it" In that regard they are extremely useful.

I had no intention of "straw-manning" you, and dont want to fall out over something so trivial

tl; dr:

- You are wrong!;
while (true)
{
- NO U;
}

Has anyone forgotten the protests here in the US of Illegal Mexican Immigrants?

Explain to me why someone who jumps the line and commits A FELONY by coming into the country illegally should be given our bill of rights ( http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/fac ... illeng.htm )?

Legal immigrants are good. We like legal. Illegal imigrants just piss everyone except the socialists off. The socialists love to get more "Victims" to depend on them and use as an excuse to make government MOAR BIGGAR!.

Meh, anyway.

[quote="Forboding Angel"]We like legal. Illegal imigrants just piss everyone except the socialists off. The socialists love to get more "Victims" to depend on them and use as an excuse to make government MOAR BIGGAR!.quote]


seriously, wtf?

pintle wrote:

Forboding Angel wrote:We like legal. Illegal imigrants just piss everyone except the socialists off. The socialists love to get more "Victims" to depend on them and use as an excuse to make government MOAR BIGGAR!

seriously, wtf?

I guess you don't pay attention to american news.

The socialists (aka Liberals) do their best to cause people to be dependent on the government.


My original statement as concerning protest signs. It's ludicris when someone who is in your country illegally is walking around with a sign protesting your countries laws.

By american news you mean fox/cnn etc?

Socialists and liberals are very different things. It was your immense generalisation that caused me to comment.

Forboding Angel wrote: Explain to me why someone who jumps the line and commits A FELONY by coming into the country illegally should be given our bill of rights ( http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/fac ... illeng.htm )?

Legal immigrants are good. We like legal. Illegal imigrants just piss everyone except the socialists off. The socialists love to get more "Victims" to depend on them and use as an excuse to make government MOAR BIGGAR!

There are a lot of Illegal immigrants who deserve every right to be here. In some cases more then some Americans....
I know of a man who was Put in jail for arriving here simply because he was being persecuted for his religion back in Egypt. There's multiple stories like this that I could probably come up with if it was necessary (my mom worked for Amnesty international)

Then again, I also know a family that didn't deserve to be here, necessarily, since they had a fine life back at home... So I guess it goes both ways.

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hey guys, 4chon is being ddosed!

Forboding Angel wrote:

pintle wrote:

Forboding Angel wrote:We like legal. Illegal imigrants just piss everyone except the socialists off. The socialists love to get more "Victims" to depend on them and use as an excuse to make government MOAR BIGGAR!

seriously, wtf?

I guess you don't pay attention to american news.

The party I don't vote for (aka Liberals) do their best to cause people to be dependent on the government.


My original statement as concerning protest signs. It's ludicris when someone who is in your country illegally is walking around with a sign protesting your countries laws.

Fixed because the other side will claim the same.

They've stopped ddosing it but moot is out making soup and hasn't put it back up.

4chan is under investigation for providing child porn, smoth mah boi


format your HD quickly so they wont get to you!

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4chan was ddosed by lulz.net.

cong06 wrote:

Forboding Angel wrote: Explain to me why someone who jumps the line and commits A FELONY by coming into the country illegally should be given our bill of rights ( http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/fac ... illeng.htm )?

Legal immigrants are good. We like legal. Illegal imigrants just piss everyone except the socialists off. The socialists love to get more "Victims" to depend on them and use as an excuse to make government MOAR BIGGAR!

There are a lot of Illegal immigrants who deserve every right to be here. In some cases more then some Americans....
I know of a man who was Put in jail for arriving here simply because he was being persecuted for his religion back in Egypt. There's multiple stories like this that I could probably come up with if it was necessary (my mom worked for Amnesty international)

Then again, I also know a family that didn't deserve to be here, necessarily, since they had a fine life back at home... So I guess it goes both ways.

In America Socialists and liberals are the same. Also, a little known fact, in the early - mid 1900's the socialist party started calling themselves liberals due to the fact that socialism had been case in a bad light.


DESERVE TO BE HERE!?

The simple fact that they were persecuted in their own country does not make them DESERVE to live in this country. Talk about distortion of the truth, Jesus Christ.

The only people that DESERVE to live in this country are UNITED STATES CITIZENS!

smoth wrote:.


4chan was ddosed by lulz.net.

more like lulzkillers.net

Forb.. WTF are you on about...

Those signs are all full of shit and stupid.. and smoth is right.. we should focus on the real issues.. like 4chan being down..

THIS IS NOT GOOD PEOPLE!!

think of all the /b/tards wandering the internets.. think of the havoc, the innocent kittens.. save 4chan..

Forb, uhm - no. They're both empty labels at this point, but they operate on different levels of identification. Liberal is relative to the political climate of a state, in the U.S. it denotes dislike of government interference in personal life coupled with a disconnect between economic and personal freedom. Socialists in the United States fall under a sub-group of Modern American Liberalism, but are not the majority of Liberals.

This discussion is permitted by the distinction between Classical and New Deal Liberalism, of course. They're both made up of "Liberals" in their own contexts, but are quite different.

Forboding Angel wrote:The only people that DESERVE to live in this country are UNITED STATES CITIZENS!

This type of statement makes me wonder who gave people, countrys and nations the right to say "this piece of land is mine"... Some Asian countries have very high population with very low space to put it, so I think that at least moraly it would be fair to give pieces of other countries to these, but then eventually we would have a world-level overbreeding problem :) (and we already have)

Manored... Have your heard of militaries.. they are all the rage for a country wishing to enforce its claim on ground, resources, or other such things.. Force of Arms is what gives a nation the right to claim a piece of land..

Forboding Angel wrote:In America Socialists and liberals are the same. Also, a little known fact, in the early - mid 1900's the socialist party started calling themselves liberals due to the fact that socialism had been case in a bad light.


DESERVE TO BE HERE!?

The simple fact that they were persecuted in their own country does not make them DESERVE to live in this country. Talk about distortion of the truth, Jesus Christ.

The only people that DESERVE to live in this country are UNITED STATES CITIZENS!

And I guess you and I have different views on Politics. I like to think more globally for the needs of humanity as a whole. Democracy (when used correctly) has the power to take the needs of the whole and do something about it (however slowly). So I think the Statue of Liberties idea:

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

Was a welcome invitation to those that needed sanctuary. Much like the pilgrims. As someone said: we were once Pilgrims. The whole idea of America is Democracy for Refugees. Or that was it's policy once...

Though, maybe the word "Deserve" was a bad choice...