Spring RTS Engine

NOiZE wrote:A krogoth can just outrange a jugg..

Even than he's left with less than half health and the jugg stays alive for long enough to run the whole speedmetal path (which in any non speedmetal map means the jugga can basically go wherever he wants uncontested) It also requires rediculous micro on the part of the kroggie user.

I told day to buff the krog tooooo

Got some bad news if you're looking to CA as the great TA hope for Spring - try the beta. ~~

Happily, there might soon be an alternative to either one....

Tired wrote:Got some bad news if you're looking to CA as the great TA hope for Spring - try the beta. ~~

Happily, there might soon be an alternative to either one....

this is the BA thread..

Ba is taking a turn for the crapper, there is no hope left..

I actually like the new changes, though a bit extreme they make for some funny games :)
really worst thing that can happen is that people actually use these units and they get balanced later instead of just staying as pointless they used to be.

also scale up the juggernaut model a bit, its so tiny for 400k hp.

Most changes in this version are very needed, but they were just too much. Popup turrets were a joke before and its the first time i see a jugger since my very first days building all units in singleplayer to see the models. The krow could probably use ANOTHER doubling of hp.

Is this is a joke release right?

Cabbage wrote:Is this is a joke release right?

No,...

whoops nevermind, reread it again, not as bad is i first thought

P.S. hurry up and steal all the CA effects ^^

How can you rationalize making 5.4 version releases before and not figuring out that certain units need to be tweaked so massively as to double and half massively gameplay relevant statistics such as DPS and HP?

SwiftSpear wrote:How can you rationalize making 5.4 version releases before and not figuring out that certain units need to be tweaked so massively as to double and half massively gameplay relevant statistics such as DPS and HP?

Version envy. Or possibly the CvC school of balancing.

Which reminds me I need to give at least some of the heavies a price hike, you can spam Triremes like noone's business in 0.4...

Units like the viper and juggernaught have been irrelevant for so long that a change like this can really show you where the unit stands in relation to the current state of balance.

This change will yield a lot more information and perspective on a unit in BAs current climate than a 1% change would have.


While it seems to go right against BA's release philosophy it seems like a step in the right direction

All the juggernaut really needed was a small speed boost, and a build time reduction, now its even lamer than the Krogoth.

Btw, Sumo needs a higher crush strength, it gets stuck far too often.

Solars could do with a higher build slope tolerance, they're hard to place on alot of places that they should be able to be put down.

ARM Panther could do with a little boost, to keep it in line to at least at slightly more cost effective balance than flash tanks..

Bladewing could use some improvement on its patrol routine, so it can at least be put on patrol and actually intercept some enemy.

Luger/Pillager could use a High traj/Low traj toggle, so it can attack hiltops like any other artillery unit.

Shield bases still need a repulse strength buff and energy per shot deflected increase to counter its higher strength, as is, bertha shots can still penetrate quite easily into a shield, and the edge tolerance of shields is pathetic.

The Core RAIDER tank still isn't balanced with Stumpy stats, even in cost and dps balances compared to the Stumpy, you get higher effeciency by building Garpikes for the same cost + you get better slope climb and you can travel underwater with the garpike.
Raiders get chewed up so fast its not even funny, you're better off building garpikes and levelers for what you actually get for the $$.

Now those are sensible changes, why wouldn't things like this be concidered for a testing session?

MR.D wrote:All the juggernaut really needed was a small speed boost, and a build time reduction, now its even lamer than the Krogoth.

Btw, Sumo needs a higher crush strength, it gets stuck far too often.

Solars could do with a higher build slope tolerance, they're hard to place on alot of places that they should be able to be put down.

ARM Panther could do with a little boost, to keep it in line to at least at slightly more cost effective balance than flash tanks..

Bladewing could use some improvement on its patrol routine, so it can at least be put on patrol and actually intercept some enemy.

Luger/Pillager could use a High traj/Low traj toggle, so it can attack hiltops like any other artillery unit.

Shield bases still need a repulse strength buff and energy per shot deflected increase to counter its higher strength, as is, bertha shots can still penetrate quite easily into a shield, and the edge tolerance of shields is pathetic.

The Core RAIDER tank still isn't balanced with Stumpy stats, even in cost and dps balances compared to the Stumpy, you get higher effeciency by building Garpikes for the same cost + you get better slope climb and you can travel underwater, raiders get chewed up so fast its not even funny.

Now those are sensible changes, why wouldn't things like this be concidered for a testing session?

I agree with all of the above. They probably weren't included because they weren't suggested until now.

[edit] Except the raider change. The T1 game is pretty close to perfect in BA. Messing with it much more can only lead to fucking things up.

The least of the juggernaughts needs is a speed buff.

There seems to be a culture of wanting all units to be buffed until they are direct assault units. Like the Warrior bot which is now "balanced" to ambiguity the Juggernaught was meant to be a mobile turret and the low speed is the defining characteristic of that.

The HP buff is going closer in direction to making the unit what it ideally should be than a speed buff would.

All the stuff thats I mentioned, is in the BA main forums, and alot of them are carry over from AA imbalances that were never looked into.

Ishach wrote:The least of the juggernaughts needs is a speed buff.

There seems to be a culture of wanting all units to be buffed until they are direct assault units. Like the Warrior bot which is now "balanced" to ambiguity the Juggernaught was meant to be a mobile turret and the low speed is the defining characteristic of that.

The HP buff is going closer in direction to making the unit what it ideally should be than a speed buff would.

Why does a turret need ridiculous amounts of HP? Turrets are supposed to be a defensive backdrop that lends you the edge providing fire support in conflict on your home territory. The mobility of the juggernaught means you can bring it with you. Optimally the unit would be virtually useless when forced to move, and provide primarily a fire support role compared to it's current role of invincible tank.

its not about semantics, its about having units with character and not just attack unit nr 1 and slightly bigger attack unit nr2.

what happened to my popups' defense? They were supposd to be nuke-proof when closed... why moer DPS

and btw, there's a bug with many popups (all of them i think) that they dont go "underneath" for many many minutes. even if i holdfire and then say "stop" repeatedly, etc. im guessing there's a sleeptime issue somewhere; can you cut it down to mayb 2-5 seconds of waiting for next enemy before going under?