Spring RTS Engine

Licho wrote:I hope the new lobby client and server are not going to be in java though :)

+infinity


I feel dirty...

err, java has progressed since v1.1

AF wrote:err, java has progressed since v1.1

Yes. The JVM has become even larger and has developed an even bigger memory footprint.

Java code runs fast and efficiently, once you've got the VM up and running... but getting it up and running is a pain. Any highly-optimized VM will be the same - eg. DotNet.

So, if you run lots of java apps, then Java is very nice, since you've already taken the hit. But if you only use them intermittently, then every time you start up a Java app, your system begs for mercy.

Hence, I prefer solutions with lower overhead (even if they're slower and more memory intensive for the application itself: eg. Python), or a solid native language (if you don't like C++, D or a Lisp variant are nice).

Actually I think you'll find there were several improvements in 1.5 to speed up JVM loading...

It still takes ages and wastes RAM...

Like tasclient loading all its hundreds of minimaps? Or spring loadings it flashy loading screens? Or Unit textures? Map textures? Spring itself? Who needs winamp taking up all that ram, lets rip out all the audio drivers anyway, we only need beeps and blips, and lets tear out that gfx card aswell, we only need text prompts, oh, where was I?

Besides any half decent VM only loads what it needs to load, and for this specific program it would load 2 native systems for handling files, and reading the innards of zip files. The windows calculator program loads more stuff. What VM programmer would make a hello world program load the entire Java virtual machine with all its libraries and toolkits? Its like reading in the entire HD to run a windows program.

You also forget that most java programs are badly written. When you were running that slow java program did you ever stop to think it wasnt java that was slow, but the program that java was running itself?

I'm not saying the programs bad. I'm just saying it would be 1000% better if it supported sd7. Then it would be like...include with spring good.

If your concerned about ram...try looking at TASClient

Tas client seems to me completely ok ... when minimized (= when I play or work on my PC) eats only about 2MB RAM on my system and virtually no CPU cycles (judged by total CPU time).
Perfectly reasonable.

Can a Java client + VM achieve the same?

TAS Client never sucks less than forty MB here.

tasclient always takes up at least 60MB for me on two PCs

A java client and a VM is also more portable. Which is something to consider since we already have windows and linux players, and mac players are starting to become more possible (I play on a mac!)

AF wrote:tasclient always takes up at least 60MB for me on two PCs

Minimized?? In windows XP??
It shows actual usage about 2MB ..

how many maps and mods? How many channels are open and what time of the day and what timezone? Measured using what program.

the number of channels your in and the number of maps you have does have a huge impact on ram

but then again 60 mb is jack shit these days

my 4 GB is not complaining.

AF wrote:how many maps and mods? How many channels are open and what time of the day and what timezone? Measured using what program.

4.43GB maps, 340MB of mods.
5 channels joined (I have them in perform).
Right now.
Measured with task manager after I minimize TASClient

RAM eaten by tasclient (memory use - "využit├â┬¡ paměti" on screenshot): 2MB

My system is windows XP SP2 with bigcache 1 in registry and 2GB of RAM.

5.61 GB Maps
955 MB Mods
24 Channels
Minimized Usage: 97.6 MB

Windows XP, SP2. 1 GB of Memory.

0.00 GB Maps
12 MB Mods
3 Channels



0.00 GB Maps
12 MB Mods
0 Channels

1.6GB of maps, 500MB of mods, 11 Channels, 11MB of memory usage.

Then I restart the client. 35MB of usage.

I restart again. 2MB of usage.


Again and again: 34MB, 34MB, 35MB, 35MB.

But after a while, that last number went down to 5MB.



I'm using Cup's modded client.

quantum wrote:1.6GB of maps, 500MB of mods, 11 Channels, 11MB of memory usage.

Then I restart the client. 35MB of usage.

I restart again. 2MB of usage.


Again and again: 34MB, 34MB, 35MB, 35MB.

But after a while, that last number went down to 5MB.



I'm using Cup's modded client.

Well the program has a lot of RAM allocated but it's not using it .. It's working set is just around 2-4MB if you minize it's window.

Since it's not using this ram, it can be swapped away and you don't have to care about it.